Webley Target MK11 for 10 Metre?

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Re: Webley Target MK11 for 10 Metre?

Postby gary5031 » Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:43 pm

Just noticed a rather funny spelling mistake, thats gun and NOT gin smith. Less of the mothers ruin on a hot summers day.
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Re: Webley Target MK11 for 10 Metre?

Postby Certus » Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:15 pm

gary5031 wrote:Whatcha chaps,
Sorry to post this in the pistol section, but it is a related topic. I have just started target shooting with a MK1 Webley Service air rifle and have a few questions i'am hoping could get answered. I would like to adjust the trigger pull, to make lighter, using the adjustment screw but have no idea as to whether it should wind in (cw) or out (ccw). As its a very rare and rather expansive model I dont want to do any damage, any ideas.
Also as i'am new to the sport and collecting air weapons, lots of deacs and WW2 milliteria, can anybody recommend a good gin smith to service the rifle? I live in South Essex.
I'am also in the process of looking at a Webley MK1 pistol and a MK2 target pistol to also target shoot with, any particular pro's and con's for each pistol?
Thanks for your time and patience as this is my first post.
Kind regards & TTFN,
Gary


Hello Gary,

The trigger adjustment screw is turned CW to reduce the weight and CCW to increase the weight. Be very careful when doing this though, as trying to reduce the weight too much can result in the sear not engaging enough to be safe.

The Mk2 Target air pistol was introduced as a deluxe version of the Mk1 and was only made in small numbers resulting in it being much rarer and consequently more expensive. I have both and have found no difference in accuracy between the two at the maximum recommended range of 10 metres. The Mk2 Target has a rear sight which is adjustable for windage as well as elevation whereas the Mk1 is only adjustable for elevation. In practice however, the Mk1 sight blade slot can be filed to allow modest adjustment in windage. Neither are particularly suitable for precision target shooting, but are great fun to own and shoot.

Regards
Brian
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Re: Webley Target MK11 for 10 Metre?

Postby gary5031 » Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:05 pm

Brian,
Many thanks for the advice.
The problem with the rifle at the moment is that it takes an over long and hard squeeze of the trigger to 'fire' the rifle, which in itself is making it hard to be accurate whilst target shooting. On closer inspection the adjusting screw does look to be almost proud of the action of the gun, so i'll try to screw it in via small incraments to see if it makes a difference whilst keeping your advice in mind as to not going too far. I'll post and let you know how it goes.
As for the MK 1 & 2 pistol the dealer has both models at the same price so I may go for the rarer MK2 and source the more common MK 1 when monies allow.
Thanks for all the advice and i'll let you know how it goes.

Kind regards.

Gary
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Re: Webley Target MK11 for 10 Metre?

Postby Certus » Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:22 pm

Hi Gary,

No problem. If you let us know the Ser No of your Mk1 rifle and the Mk1 /Mk2 Target pistol, we should be able to provide an idea of the manufacturing date.

The Mk2 Target is definitely the more desirable pistol, especially at the same price.

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Brian
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Re: Webley Target MK11 for 10 Metre?

Postby gary5031 » Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:50 pm

Brian,
The Ser No. of the rifle is 691, listed in Chris Thrales's excellent book. I presumed that that would put its date around 1927? what are your thoughts?
I have had one session of target shooting and the grouping is slightly low so whilst i'am looking at the trigger adjustment i'll look at adjusting the back sight. At the moment its on the bottom of the 5 settings so i'll move it up one line at a time and see what happens.
Thanks for your kind interest, i'll try and post some images tomorrow.

TTFN,

Gary
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Re: Webley Target MK11 for 10 Metre?

Postby gary5031 » Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:22 pm

Quick photo of my Webley MK1 Service air rifle.

I'll need to fiddle with the picture export settings to see if I can post better quality pictures.
Attachments
WEB 1 COMPRESSED.jpg
WEB 1 COMPRESSED.jpg (6.34 KiB) Viewed 1689 times
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Re: Webley Target MK11 for 10 Metre?

Postby Certus » Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:57 am

Hi Gary,

A total of around 1,500 Mk1 air rifles were made and exact dates aren't easy to establish unlike the pre-war BSA rifles. From Chris Thrale's reference and others, I would agree that 1927-1928 would be about right for your example. There are better and more accurate references for the pre-war Webley air pistols and Gordon Bruce's excellent history book is the equivalent bible to Chris Thale's rifle book.

I don't have a Mk1 rifle, but do have a nice 3rd series Mk2 Service in the rarer .25 calibre which shoots very well out to 20 yds.
Although both Webley and BSA introduced rifles with 'Military' or 'Service' in the name, neither was officially adopted by the military for training. The army did however use a modified BSA underlever rifle as a gun laying trainer for the artillery to practice range finding.
As a matter of interest, I use Photobucket to host my photographs, but it's extremely frustrating to use being slow and full of pop-up advertising.

Regards
Brian
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Re: Webley Target MK11 for 10 Metre?

Postby gary5031 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:20 pm

Brian,
I agree that Gordon Bruce's book is excellent and I made sure that i'de had a good read of it before I began looking. In ref to yesterdays posts i did go and look at some pre-1939 Webley pistols with another dealer and bought a MK1 that was too cheap to say no (over half the price of the other MK1 and MK2 target). The Ser No of the pistol is 22624 which I am assuming is a Fourth series as it has the older first type trigger adjusting screw and has the newer retaining screw on the barrel hinge plus the US patent. Would you agree that it would put it at about the same age as my rifle 1927, or could it be slightly older or newer?
I popped into my local gun shop and they tested the gun at just under 3 ft lbs, so i'll be ok with 6yd shooting at my local club.

TTFN,

Gary

ps
I paid £160 for the pistol, which compared to every other one on the internet dealer sights seemed rather cheap? Apart from the barrel, which had a lot of hand contact, the bluing on the rest of the body is pretty good.
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Re: Webley Target MK11 for 10 Metre?

Postby Certus » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:35 pm

Hello Gary,
Reference sources suggest that approximately 20,000 Mk1 air pistols were made up to the end of 1926, so your Ser No would suggest early 1927 to be about right.
I obtained most of my collection from Arms Fairs or from other collectors in private deals rather than from recognised firearms dealers.
I would say a good Straight Grip Mk1 should be obtainable for around £150 whereas, a Mk2 Target in the same condition would be £200-£250. You can add another £80-£100 for an original box depending on condition.

Older air guns seem to prefer lighter pellets which seem to suit both the rifles as well as the pistols. H&N Pistol Match Flat Head pellets work best for me, but are quite expensive. RWS Hobby are a cheaper if not quite as consistent alternative.
Although all the elements of precision pistol shooting are important, Iv'e found that proper follow through has the most influence when shooting these spring powered air pistols to a reasonable standard.

Finally, 3ft/lbs muzzle energy is good for these pistols and perfectly adequate for the intended ranges also, this link to a Fair organised by one of the guys over on the BBS forum might be of interest

http://proteksupplies.co.uk/page119.html

Regards
Brian
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Re: Webley Target MK11 for 10 Metre?

Postby gary5031 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:08 pm

Brian,
Thanks for your, once again, helpful comments. I had seen the Kempton advertised and may get along, work depending.
I will be shooting the pistol at my club on Thursday, i'll let you know how it goes and i'll post some pic's when I get a minute to take them off my phone.

Kind regards,

Gary
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