1st Series Briton, .22 Warrior and a few Diana Mod 2's

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1st Series Briton, .22 Warrior and a few Diana Mod 2's

Postby Mattdale » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:02 pm

Hi,
As I said in my introduction I've recently purchased a collection of vintage Air pistols, the vast majority of them at I'll sell at Kempton Park and I'll be keeping my favorites....

One For Brian....

I recently picked up a Briton, it has quite an elaborate sprung pellet insertor:

https://www.flickr.com/gp/158270726@N07/795p4V
https://www.flickr.com/photos/158270726 ... res/u4yKz1

Also a small hole in front of the trigger, I wonder if this was one of the ones with a trigger guard originally added?

Related to the Warrior apparently.
Interesting little pistol. Not much blueing left but works well with a good strong spring. I was thinking of asking around £150-£200 for it.

Also a .22 Warrior:

https://www.flickr.com/gp/158270726@N07/ijwW0D


Sn: 4062
Nice old homemade box.
Cocking arm's a bit warped but the seal lines up perfectly at the back and it fires nicely.
Judging by an AirgunBBs thread .22 examples aren't quite as rare as was thought!
Mr Hiller thought they were quite scarce, but that was pre internet.

I was going to ask £350 for it.


Then there are a few Diana model 2's, two of which are in excellent condition. (1948 + 1949, wood handles) I was going to ask £70 for the good ones and £40 for the shabbier ones.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/158270726 ... res/02rt1U
https://www.flickr.com/photos/158270726 ... res/0s95V3

Around £50 for the tinplate ones as I believe they are early models.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/158270726 ... res/315EU0

And finally a nice boxed Diana Mark IV in really nice condition. not sure on value of this.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/158270726 ... res/1T2672


Apologies for bombarding you with valuation requests, I'm not a trader and want to price these so they are affordable to collectors, but not so low that they get snapped up by dealers then put online for inflated prices to sit there for years not getting used. I've researched my Webley prices and will be pricing them relatively low.

I also feel a bit bad about breaking up someones collection but apparently he never used them and it would be nice to see them enjoyed by other collectors and maybe even get some use. I'm only keeping ones I'd be keen to shoot regularly.

I'll endevour to submit posts of all the pistols I keep along with my existing collection soon, if it would be of interest.

Thanks,
Matt.
Mattdale
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:10 am

Re: !st Series Briton, .22 Warrior and a few Diana Mod 2's

Postby Certus » Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:31 pm

Mattdale wrote:One For Brian....

I recently picked up a Briton, it has quite an elaborate sprung pellet insertor:

https://www.flickr.com/gp/158270726@N07/795p4V
https://www.flickr.com/photos/158270726 ... res/u4yKz1

Also a small hole in front of the trigger, I wonder if this was one of the ones with a trigger guard originally added?

Related to the Warrior apparently.
Interesting little pistol. Not much blueing left but works well with a good strong spring. I was thinking of asking around £150-£200 for it.

Also a .22 Warrior:

https://www.flickr.com/gp/158270726@N07/ijwW0D


Sn: 4062
Nice old homemade box.
Cocking arm's a bit warped but the seal lines up perfectly at the back and it fires nicely.
Judging by an AirgunBBs thread .22 examples aren't quite as rare as was thought!
Mr Hiller thought they were quite scarce, but that was pre internet.

I was going to ask £350 for it.


Then there are a few Diana model 2's, two of which are in excellent condition. (1948 + 1949, wood handles) I was going to ask £70 for the good ones and £40 for the shabbier ones.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/158270726 ... res/02rt1U
https://www.flickr.com/photos/158270726 ... res/0s95V3

Around £50 for the tinplate ones as I believe they are early models.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/158270726 ... res/315EU0

And finally a nice boxed Diana Mark IV in really nice condition. not sure on value of this.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/158270726 ... res/1T2672


Apologies for bombarding you with valuation requests, I'm not a trader and want to price these so they are affordable to collectors, but not so low that they get snapped up by dealers then put online for inflated prices to sit there for years not getting used. I've researched my Webley prices and will be pricing them relatively low.

I also feel a bit bad about breaking up someones collection but apparently he never used them and it would be nice to see them enjoyed by other collectors and maybe even get some use. I'm only keeping ones I'd be keen to shoot regularly.

I'll endevour to submit posts of all the pistols I keep along with my existing collection soon, if it would be of interest.

Thanks,
Matt.


Hello Matt,

The good news is that your first series Briton is fitted with an extremely rare (only 2 known), but completely original retractable pellet seater. The bad news is that it isn't in great cosmetic condition which will be reflected in it's estimated value. The trigger guard would have been hinged at the front secured by a pin and sprung into the rear frame behind the trigger itself. It's hard to estimate a value as the pellet seater is the main discriminator as far as collectors are concerned. I paid £120 for an almost mint first series pistol a few years ago, so without the unusual pellet seater I would only estimate £70-£80, but the seater would attract a significant premium, so £120 -£150 would be nearer the mark, maybe more to a specialist collector.
As you say, the Briton is related to the Warrior both having been designed by Frank Clarke. He went on to contribute to the all conquering Webley design recognised by the payment of royalties related to the sale of these pistols. The first series Briton was finished in blue or nickel and sold between 1925 - ca 1930.

The Warrior is a second series (recurved trigger guard) also designed by Frank Clarke and made between 1933 -1939. As you rightly say, the .22 calibre and nickle plated variants are rarer. Unfortunately, the wooden case wouldn't add to the value, but the early tin of wasp pellets might. Again, I paid £350 for an almost mint originally boxed example not so long ago, so given the damage to the cocking arm, £180 -£200 would seem more realistic for a private sale.

The Diana Mod 2 pistols are extremely common and consequently only fetch low prices even when in good condition. Consequently, I would estimate £30-£40 for the better examples and £15-£20 for the poorer condition pistols.

The boxed Diana Mod IV looks nice and should be worth £80 - £100, but once again these are quite easy to source and only attract a limited market.

The above estimations might seem low, especially when compared with some internet prices etc, but I believe they are realistic for private sale to a limited number of specialist collectors.

The first series Briton is by far the most interesting pistol which might be better sold via BBS or auction given the rarity of the pellet seater. You could take them to the Kempton Fair, but selling a lot of similar pistols at the same time might prove difficult.

Good luck whatever you decide to do.

Regards
Brian
Certus
Sharpshooter
Sharpshooter
 
Posts: 428
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 8:34 am
Location: Worthing West Sussex

Re: !st Series Briton, .22 Warrior and a few Diana Mod 2's

Postby Mattdale » Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:49 pm

Certus wrote:
Mattdale wrote:One For Brian....

The first series Briton is by far the most interesting pistol which might be better sold via BBS or auction given the rarity of the pellet seater. You could take them to the Kempton Fair, but selling a lot of similar pistols at the same time might prove difficult.

Good luck whatever you decide to do.

Regards
Brian


Sage Council,

Thanks Brian, thats extremely helpful. Glad I mentioned the pellet seater!

Much appreciated,

Matt.
Mattdale
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:10 am

Re: 1st Series Briton, .22 Warrior and a few Diana Mod 2's

Postby Certus » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:58 pm

Hi Matt,

I replied to your PM, but I'm not sure it was sent correctly, so here is the content just in case.

The pellet seater is referenced in 'The Encyclopedia of Spring Air Pistols' by John Griffiths which although now out of print is still recognised as the bible for all serious spring air pistol collectors.

Apart from your own, John himself owns one of only two other first series Britons known with this particular pellet seater with the other being part of the Beeman collection in the USA. It was first thought that the seater might have been a prototype or maybe sourced from another supplier, but it's now assumed to be an original factory component.

If you decide to sell the pistol, I would recommend that you either place it on the BBS site first or take it to a specialist auction so that it is visible to a larger audience.

It's difficult to value due to it rarity, but be sure to emphasise the presence of the pellet seater and it's rarity if you decide to sell the pistol.

Regards
Brian
Certus
Sharpshooter
Sharpshooter
 
Posts: 428
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 8:34 am
Location: Worthing West Sussex

Re: 1st Series Briton, .22 Warrior and a few Diana Mod 2's

Postby Mattdale » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:31 pm

Certus wrote:Hi Matt,

I replied to your PM, but I'm not sure it was sent correctly, so here is the content just in case.

The pellet seater is referenced in 'The Encyclopedia of Spring Air Pistols' by John Griffiths which although now out of print is still recognised as the bible for all serious spring air pistol collectors.

Apart from your own, John himself owns one of only two other first series Britons known with this particular pellet seater with the other being part of the Beeman collection in the USA. It was first thought that the seater might have been a prototype or maybe sourced from another supplier, but it's now assumed to be an original factory component.

If you decide to sell the pistol, I would recommend that you either place it on the BBS site first or take it to a specialist auction so that it is visible to a larger audience.

It's difficult to value due to it rarity, but be sure to emphasise the presence of the pellet seater and it's rarity if you decide to sell the pistol.

Regards
Brian


Hi Brian,

thanks for the Info,

I've contacted John Griffiths via airgunbb's and he's confirmed it's and original spring pellet seater (1 of 3 now known) and kindly sent me a scan of the appropriate page from his book.

I know its only a small part but I find it's rarity quite exciting, I think I'll hold on to it for a while.

What's a good online vintage airgun auction site for future reference?


Thanks for your help,
Mattdale
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:10 am


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