Walther CP1

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RobinC
Re: Walther CP1

Post by RobinC » Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:57 am

Thanks Bob
Its not just shooting the things, the history is fascinating as well! Bobsairguns is building nicely as a reference site and a virtual museum, but have you considered a live museum as well? The Walther museum in Ulm is not open to the public but I'm sure I could arrange a visit if you found yourself in the area.

I have a picture which I'll e mail to you, its too big for this site as is and I'm not clever enough with the confusor to reduce it, perhaps you can and post it on here? Its from the Walther museum and shows the CP1 in the 80's section, the date is obscured but I think its 81. We were in Ulm in 1980 which would match with us being shown the pre production ones and I think we would then have got them in 81. The next time we went to Ulm was in 83 and that would have been too late so I think that matches, I think your 1981 is probably correct.
Norfolk firearms dept are very helpfull but they told me before that my old FAC records were pre computor, but I have sent another pleading request, offering to pay for a search of paper if it it still exists, but as they have moved HQ since that time I doubt that it does.
The fact that yours has DG grips suggests to me its a period one from the UK and not a German import, and they were rare so it could be one of the pair that George and I had, I can't remember any one other than George and I had them.In fact the only Co2's I can remember in use at that time in comps waa Hammerli and the FWB model 1. I can't remember who I sold mine too, it was not Derek Gent as I knew him and would have remembered, but it was some else in the BPC at that time as the BPC was the centre of our shooting then. The more I think about it the more I think that the odds of it being one of that pair is better than even! Sadly we may never know!
I can't even search with the importers as that was Malcolm at AI, now long gone in that form and now a new company, and Bill who worked for AI then is also gone and he may have had old files. My contact at Walther who is responsble for the museum is off sick at the moment so I can't search there but I can't see them having records from that period as they have moved since and the old site was a bit muddled.
Fun this game!
Robin

zooma
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Re: Walther CP1

Post by zooma » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:24 am

Hi Robin,

The CP1 that I have is pistol number 1241.

I even have the original Walther case with the same serial numbers on the case end-label and the "Export Certificated" (red printed on white) label again with the same serial number on it.

.............and of course I also have the original handbook as well!
Feinwerkbau P40 Tricolour wanted.........still !
http://www.bobsairguns .com - proud to host the RMTC site since April 2011.

RobinC

Re: Walther CP1

Post by RobinC » Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:49 am

Norfolk police have confirmed that they don't keep records that far back so its just a dream that yours may have been one of that pair. It would have been a big coincidence any way if it had been!

zooma
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Re: Walther CP1

Post by zooma » Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:22 am

Maybe not such a coincidence!

There were very few CP1 pistols made and even less imported into the UK due the the requirement to have them registered on a firearms certificate.

Even fewer CP1 pistols would have had a Derek Gent grip custom made to fit it as the owners would have to know about this grip maker and hold a firearm certificate during this same time period so it would have been a fairly exclusive ownership club of very small numbers.

The CP1 design itself was slightly flawed and so it was quickly re-engineered to produce the modified CP1 that became know as the CP2.

Maybe your Walther connections could let you know how many CP1 pistols were actually produced - and their production logs can probably also identify the serial numbers of the pistols they exported to the UK in late 1978 as the numbers could probably be counted on the fingers of one hand !..................or even just those used in the traditional victory salute perhaps?
Last edited by zooma on Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Feinwerkbau P40 Tricolour wanted.........still !
http://www.bobsairguns .com - proud to host the RMTC site since April 2011.

RobinC

Re: Walther CP1

Post by RobinC » Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:11 am

I've e mailed my friend but I think he's off sick so I'll see if I get a response.

Production logs! If you had seen the old factory you'd understand, it was chaotic. The new one is like a clinic and the museum was an attempt to recover some of their past lost in the chaotic years.

Robin

RobinC

Re: Walther CP1

Post by RobinC » Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:06 pm

Wow! he's back and replied by return, the records no longer exist, he says about 1000 or less made and they have not an idea how many came to England.
Quite a small production run then, but I still suspect very few were original English imports.
The Gent grips would suggest but not definitively that who ever had them made was a BPC (British Pistol Club) man.
Its infuriatingly frustrating that we have this fabulous research tool the internet but that so much info in the period before that relys on memories and paper long gone.

zooma
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Re: Walther CP1

Post by zooma » Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:22 pm

If you check the pictures on bobsairguns before I refinished the grips it did indeed have two stickers on it - one was the BPC badge ( I think) and the other had two initials on it - maybe the owners or maybe a range control officers "weapons control" pass sticker?

http://bobsairguns.com/index.php?option ... Itemid=124" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Feinwerkbau P40 Tricolour wanted.........still !
http://www.bobsairguns .com - proud to host the RMTC site since April 2011.

RobinC

Re: Walther CP1

Post by RobinC » Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:58 pm

Its an ESSU control sticker, and a BPC one, can't see the date though, though the earliest BPC computor records are in 2000, otherwise I'd have a look and see if a name jumps out. The one with the initials is an EC sticker from one of the meetings that did not print their own stickers.

I had the original grips as did George, so if its one of the pair its was the next owner who had the DG grips made.

Is there a date on the warranty or any of the other original docs? That may show the manufacture or import date. I reckon that's a real early one as the test card is an LP3 one with CP1 hand written on?
Robin

zooma
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Re: Walther CP1

Post by zooma » Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:06 am

Hi Robin,

The warranty certificate is number 0080 with the pistol serial number being correctly shown as 1241.

The pistol was sold by City Guns, 9 Transom House, Victoria Street, BRISTOL on 31st December 1981.

The Walther Export Certificate names Accuracy International Shooting Sports Ltd as being the sole agents for the United Kingdom.

The original Walther Control "UK Model" sticker is still on its backer sheet and has never been stuck onto the pistol.

I have never had or seen an air pistol with so much paperwork and certification - and all of it preserved so perfectly.

All of this original documentation is kept by myself in a clear plastic zip-seal mini document holder to keep it as pristine as it is now.

I would love to find a worthy home for this very rare and well documented pistol with somebody who has the space to display it properly for others to enjoy.
Feinwerkbau P40 Tricolour wanted.........still !
http://www.bobsairguns .com - proud to host the RMTC site since April 2011.

RobinC

Re: Walther CP1

Post by RobinC » Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:14 pm

Hi Bob
Its definately not one of our pair, ours were both supplied direct from AI to our local gunshop,The Gunroom, which closed a few years back , I think ours would have been a bit earlier in the year as it we had them for the match season.
Nice piece of history well backed with the docs.
Robin

zooma
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Re: Walther CP1

Post by zooma » Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:53 pm

Hi Robin,

Do you know if the Walther museum at Ulm has a CP1 on display by any chance?
Feinwerkbau P40 Tricolour wanted.........still !
http://www.bobsairguns .com - proud to host the RMTC site since April 2011.

RobinC

Re: Walther CP1

Post by RobinC » Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:48 am

Yes, its on one of the museum photo's I sent to you, its in the lit display case and there is also one in the distance on the wall in one of the other pics.
I tried to put them on here but they are too big, I'll send to you again and perhaps one of the clever confusor types can reduce them.
Best regards
Robin

zooma
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Re: Walther CP1

Post by zooma » Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:46 pm

Thanks Robin - nice picture !
Feinwerkbau P40 Tricolour wanted.........still !
http://www.bobsairguns .com - proud to host the RMTC site since April 2011.

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