Original 6M pistol

A place to discuss and share pictures, reviews, of your pistols.
zooma
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Posts:646
Joined:Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:12 pm
Re: Original 6M pistol

Post by zooma » Sat Oct 19, 2013 9:11 pm

OK - as long as you really promise not to try and buy any of my Webleys :naughty: you may like to take a look at the picture link to my HW54 Silver Star.

http://bobsairguns.com/index.php?option ... Itemid=152" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Do you have any similar shots of your Model 6M for me to see by any chance ?

I have a really nice Model 5 and your Model 6M would make a nice companion from a similar age.........you see I don't only collect and shoot Webley air pistols - I am very fond of the Diana/Original Models 5, 6 and 10 and have been lucky enough to own and shoot them all at different times since the early seventies :o
Feinwerkbau P40 Tricolour wanted.........still !
http://www.bobsairguns .com - proud to host the RMTC site since April 2011.

User avatar
zunmik
Pistoleer
Pistoleer
Posts:741
Joined:Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:22 pm

Re: Original 6M pistol

Post by zunmik » Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:16 pm

zooma wrote:OK - as long as you really promise not to try and buy any of my Webleys :naughty: you may like to take a look at the picture link to my HW54 Silver Star.

http://bobsairguns.com/index.php?option ... Itemid=152" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Do you have any similar shots of your Model 6M for me to see by any chance ?

I have a really nice Model 5 and your Model 6M would make a nice companion from a similar age.........you see I don't only collect and shoot Webley air pistols - I am very fond of the Diana/Original Models 5, 6 and 10 and have been lucky enough to own and shoot them all at different times since the early seventies :o
Pm sent, M. :)
WALTHER LP3],Etc[/b], G0JVB ex G6MUI.

zooma
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Posts:646
Joined:Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:12 pm

Re: Original 6M pistol

Post by zooma » Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:12 am

zunmik wrote: Pm sent, M. :)

PM replied to - with no mention of a Webley at all :D
Feinwerkbau P40 Tricolour wanted.........still !
http://www.bobsairguns .com - proud to host the RMTC site since April 2011.

User avatar
zunmik
Pistoleer
Pistoleer
Posts:741
Joined:Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:22 pm

Re: Original 6M pistol

Post by zunmik » Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:23 pm

zooma wrote:Pm sent, M. :)
zunmik wrote:PM replied to - with no mention of a Webley at all :D
Swap agreed actually I am happy to mention 2 webley's Nemesis, and the Turkish Alecto both of which I am happy to own & shoot. they aren't wobblies, M. :D
WALTHER LP3],Etc[/b], G0JVB ex G6MUI.

zooma
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Posts:646
Joined:Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:12 pm

Re: Original 6M pistol

Post by zooma » Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:15 pm

zunmik wrote:
zooma wrote:Pm sent, M. :)
zunmik wrote:PM replied to - with no mention of a Webley at all :D
Swap agreed actually I am happy to mention 2 webley's Nemesis, and the Turkish Alecto both of which I am happy to own & shoot. they aren't wobblies, M. :D

Wobbly Webleys they are indeed !!! :o
Feinwerkbau P40 Tricolour wanted.........still !
http://www.bobsairguns .com - proud to host the RMTC site since April 2011.

User avatar
zunmik
Pistoleer
Pistoleer
Posts:741
Joined:Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:22 pm

Re: Original 6M pistol

Post by zunmik » Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:37 pm

zooma wrote:
zunmik wrote:
zooma wrote:Pm sent, M. :)
zunmik wrote:PM replied to - with no mention of a Webley at all :D
Swap agreed actually I am happy to mention 2 webley's Nemesis, and the Turkish Alecto both of which I am happy to own & shoot. they aren't wobblies, M. :D

Wobbly Webleys they are indeed
!!! :o
:laughing-rolling: Aha by Your choice of words you agree with my views re the wobblies, M. :lol: :laughing-rolling:
WALTHER LP3],Etc[/b], G0JVB ex G6MUI.

zooma
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Posts:646
Joined:Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:12 pm

Re: Original 6M pistol

Post by zooma » Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:00 pm

Swap agreed actually I am happy to mention 2 webley's Nemesis, and the Turkish Alecto both of which I am happy to own & shoot. they aren't wobblies, M. :D[/quote]


Wobbly Webleys they are indeed
!!! :o[/quote]


:laughing-rolling: Aha by Your choice of words you agree with my views re the wobblies, M. :lol: :laughing-rolling:[/quote]

Actually they are a little bit Wobbley at the best of times - unless shot by "hippo" at 10 meters then we all have to admire his marksmanship and his ability to demonstrate just how good they can actually perform in the hands of somebody that works at it - then we have to accept that the Wobbly is a capable air pistol but we don't work hard enough to match its ability :geek:

Actually Brian (certus) has also put some very impressive cards up on CAPA at 10 metres with his Tempest so the Webley springer pistols are capable, we just need to work-out how to get the best out of them.

...........and for me that is a real challenge :ugeek:

Why not try a Tempest for yourself and lets see if we can get anything like the results hippo and certus can already achieve ?
Feinwerkbau P40 Tricolour wanted.........still !
http://www.bobsairguns .com - proud to host the RMTC site since April 2011.

User avatar
zunmik
Pistoleer
Pistoleer
Posts:741
Joined:Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:22 pm

Re: Original 6M pistol

Post by zunmik » Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:06 am

zooma wrote:Swap agreed actually I am happy to mention 2 webley's Nemesis, and the Turkish Alecto both of which I am happy to own & shoot. they aren't wobblies, M. :D

Wobbly Webleys they are indeed
!!! :o[/quote]


:laughing-rolling: Aha by Your choice of words you agree with my views re the wobblies, M. :lol: :laughing-rolling:[/quote]

Actually they are a little bit Wobbley at the best of times - unless shot by "hippo" at 10 meters then we all have to admire his marksmanship and his ability to demonstrate just how good they can actually perform in the hands of somebody that works at it - then we have to accept that the Wobbly is a capable air pistol but we don't work hard enough to match its ability :geek:

Actually Brian (certus) has also put some very impressive cards up on CAPA at 10 metres with his Tempest so the Webley springer pistols are capable, we just need to work-out how to get the best out of them.

...........and for me that is a real challenge :ugeek:

Why not try a Tempest for yourself and lets see if we can get anything like the results hippo and certus can already achieve ?[/quote]
Unusually for me I'll be serious for a moment I tried them many years ago, dreadful to shoot & badly made, sadly I had to concede that my German pistols were much better made, shot better,& even had decent triggers. :doh: M. :(
WALTHER LP3],Etc[/b], G0JVB ex G6MUI.

zooma
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Posts:646
Joined:Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:12 pm

Re: Original 6M pistol

Post by zooma » Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:25 am

Why not try a Tempest for yourself and lets see if we can get anything like the results hippo and certus can already achieve ?

[/quote]Unusually for me I'll be serious for a moment I tried them many years ago, dreadful to shoot & badly made, sadly I had to concede that my German pistols were much better made, shot better,& even had decent triggers. :doh: M. :([/quote]

Unfortunately most of what you say about our beloved wobbly's is also true :o - but don't tell IJ as it could spoil the arguments and abuse we enjoy so much!

I would however take some issue about them being badly made when compared with similar products from the same time periods at comparable prices - but we could continue this debate on another thread rather then hijacking your Original 6M thread.
Feinwerkbau P40 Tricolour wanted.........still !
http://www.bobsairguns .com - proud to host the RMTC site since April 2011.

zooma
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Posts:646
Joined:Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:12 pm

Bent Barrel?

Post by zooma » Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:20 pm

Planteater wrote:I have the "retro" plastic gripped Original 6 and I love it. I've often been tempted by the 6m but I read somewhere that there is a problem adjusting the sights. According the half-remembered blog post, the rear sight is the same as the plastic 6 and was intended to be used with the tunnel fore-sight - the 6m uses a post fore-sight that is supposedly too low to allow full adjustment.

From your description I assume this is not the case. I'd be interested to hear your take on this.

This sounds more like a typical Original/Diana pistol "bent barrel" problem that is preventing the sights from being able to work as they should rather than a "design fault" with the 6M.

All Original/Diana break barrel pistols have "soft" barrels - a well documented fact. They are so soft in fact that in "normal" use by a heavy handed owner they often gently bend out of shape. Fortunately being so soft they can be just as easily corrected and bent back into shape.

I had two really nice Original Model 10 pistols - both in excellent ( near perfect) condition. One of them could not reach the black center of the target at 10 meters and the other could not be adjusted low enough to come down onto the black center of the target at 10 meters !! Both had just been re-sealed and were in perfect health and shooting with full power.

Careful inspection showed that one had a barrel that was bent upwards. This was caused by heavy handed closing of the barrel after cocking - not helped by the heavy duty barrel closure retaining detent these models all have.

The other had a barrel that was bent downwards - caused again by heavy handed breaking of the barrel that progressively caused the barrel to droop a little over the years.

My friend John at RMTC found that his Model 6M always shot to the left of target as his barrel was bent to the left and he successfully corrected his yesterday and it is now shooting fine. This bend again will have most probably been inadvertently caused by a heavy handed cocking action by a previous owner and being right handed it is easy to understand why the barrel would have been bent towards the left.

I have just acquired a lovely Model 6M with an identical fault. This pistol is in superb condition and there are no signs whatsoever of any external damage or rough handling - but again it is impossible to get this pistol to shoot into the black of the target at 10 meters ( several of us tried at RMTC when I first acquired it last week even with the sights fully adjusted to the right to try to bring the shots across).

John has taken this pistol home with him to see if it is as easy to correct as his was, and if not I already have Dave Mercer lined up to take it into his workshop as he has plenty of experience of straightening these Original pistol barrels.

I have used the term "heavy handed" when describing the cocking action employed by "previous" ( and current?) owners, but this needs to be put into the correct perspective and maybe it should also be qualified by the fact that perhaps these barrels should not have been made so soft in the first place.

Hopefully this explanation will help to reassure those with bent barrels on the Original/Diana pistols, and those who find that the sights on their similar pistols cannot be adjusted enough pull the shots straight onto the target.

This is not an unusual problem and it is not normally too difficult to correct - but remember if you attempt to straighten one of these barrels yourself to be very careful - they really are soft and very little pressure is needed to bend them back.
Feinwerkbau P40 Tricolour wanted.........still !
http://www.bobsairguns .com - proud to host the RMTC site since April 2011.

Thirdwheel
Plinker
Plinker
Posts:50
Joined:Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: Original 6M pistol

Post by Thirdwheel » Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:56 pm

Thanks for posting the bent barrel problem and the easy fix. After rebuilding my 6M last week I've been putting in some time with it and no matter what I did grip and sight wise I could not bring my grouping down. It was hitting 30mm above the 10 and I was aiming at the bottom of the black. I took the plunge this afternoon and boyinged the barrel down about 0.8mm and it looks to be better but I only had time for 10 shots. Yup you are right you do have to be careful as it moves easily. Held in a massive vice with soft jaws, block of hardwood on the end of the barrel and three lightish downward blows onto the wood was all it needed.

thanks again for posting the cure

George

User avatar
pmh
Site Admin
Posts:1826
Joined:Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:07 pm

Re: Original 6M pistol

Post by pmh » Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:33 pm

Luckily the 6G has a thicker barrel and doesn't seem to suffer this.

Kind regards,



Phil
M0KPH
I now have so many airguns I've had to make a list, which is >>HERE<<
>>North Manchester Target Club<<

zooma
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Posts:646
Joined:Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:12 pm

Re: Original 6M pistol

Post by zooma » Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:02 pm

Reports from the JG camp in outer Manchester have confirmed that my 6M barrel is now a lot straighter than it was and following some 6 yard testing it was then shot at a 17 meter range ( length of the garden) when another interesting discovery was made.

The 6M was not too fond of the R10 diet it was being fed and made a reasonable - but not particularly good group at "garden length" (technical term of variable dimension) - but a switch to RWS CO2 pellets changed things remarkably for the better :o and produced a very tight group so at 10 metres it would be very impressive.

We all know that some pellets suite some pistols better than others and that it is always worth investing some time testing to see what suites yours the best - but I would never have thought about trying the RWS CO2 pellets in my 6M but what works best is all that matters.

Unfortunately John did not have any Meisterkugeln to hand so this will be the next comparison to make as the MK pellets always seem to work very well in classic match pistols but the R10 pellets have already been relegated for use with my PCP pistols where they are the best!
Feinwerkbau P40 Tricolour wanted.........still !
http://www.bobsairguns .com - proud to host the RMTC site since April 2011.

Thirdwheel
Plinker
Plinker
Posts:50
Joined:Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: Original 6M pistol

Post by Thirdwheel » Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:13 pm

I initially thought my shooting high was of my own making because I had burnished the cylinder with moly and used knox grease and caused an over power. I'm kicking myself now for not putting the straight edge along the barrel to see it's shape and what form the bend took. All I did was put a straight edge along the top of the breech block measured the gap at the end of the barrel recorded it and then went to work with the wood an hammer. It worries me that I may have just bent the barrel at the groove for the shroud retainer. I can afford to bend the barrel some more as it is only just within the sight adjustment now but I will use it a bit more before making any more adjustments or investigations. It is interesting to hear that the Co2 RWS pellets work well - another pellet I've got to buy and try, I've a growing collection and have found some interesting things but I do not think I'm a good enough shot yet to shout about my findings but there really do seem to be differences. Cannot find a supply of Meisterkugeln pellets yet in England but I'm going to get hold of all of the wadcutters I've not got yet got, including the co2 ones.

Best cheers
George

zooma
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Posts:646
Joined:Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:12 pm

Re: Original 6M pistol

Post by zooma » Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:00 pm

Hi George,

Our local model shop has always stocked and sold airgun pellets and currently "orders in" the Meisterkugeln pellets from the manufacturer as they are no longer imported into this country through the normal sources.

This helps the classic air pistol and air rifle shooters as the Meisterkugeln was often the number one choice when pistols such as the Feinwerkbau Model 65 were being used to win almost every event from local to international and to set world records.

Despite the huge improvements made in technical advances of air weapons design and the equally huge developments in the understanding of physical training and diet techniques the world records set by the Meisterkugeln pellets and the airguns used at that time have hardly advanced at all!

The newer RWS R10 pellets have replaced them as the "pellet of choice" with many target shooters in their PCP pistols and rifles, but the older design and shape of the Meisterkugeln often continues to give the best results in the classic air pistols and rifles.

The Meisterkugeln has recently been rediscovered by some of the PCP pistol and rifle shooters and some have switched away from their R10 pellets and moved over to Meisterkugeln (depending on what works best in their particular pistols) so the quality and consistency of this pellet remains at the highest level and is now even considered good value for money!

The Meisterkugeln are also a couple of quid a tin less expensive than the R10 pellets so they are worth a try.

- its just that they are not so easy to find anymore and many of the current crop of shooters may not have even heard of them or know that they exist!

You can see them on this link to the shops online site http://www.rossmod.co.uk/c/2900/Pellets" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Feinwerkbau P40 Tricolour wanted.........still !
http://www.bobsairguns .com - proud to host the RMTC site since April 2011.

Post Reply