Well I have finally gone and done it.

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Well I have finally gone and done it.

Postby webley ken » Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:47 pm

Well I have finally gone and done it. All my life I have owned collected and shot Webley air pistols and rifles but just before Christmas I was wandering around our local car boot sale when I came across 2 old BSA air rifles which look as though they have been in someone's garage for the last 50 or so years but the price was right as they say so I bought them both.
I know nothing about BSA guns apart from what I have picked up on the Forum so would be very greatful if anyone can help me date them and give a bit of info. I can't post pictures as I don't know how but I will do my best to describe them.

Gun No1,
Serial number 15346 has a pull down lever to cock it which says underneath Lincoln Jeffries Patent. Stamped on the top of the cylinder is The BSA Air Rifle (improved model D), The Birmingham Small Arms Company Limited, Sole Manufacturers. It also says LOAD on the pellet aperture. It has a straight grip to the stock. The gun has traces of rust all over although you can see the blueing showing through, a small split at the front of the stock about 2" long and the stock is slightly loose. The rear sight is in situ but at sometime in the past the adjusting screw and top of the sight has been replaced with a small piece of aluminium with a v filed into it, one of the screws holding the trigger guard is missing along with the large screw underneath the loading tap on the left as you are holding it.
The gun cocks and fires a pellet, the caliber is .177. The overall length is 39".

Gun No 2,
Serial number 6631 and is a break barrel rifle in .177 caliber. I can find no writing on the gun except for the serial number but it has a pistol grip stock with BSA stamped into the grip, lower down the stock is stamped with the BSA logo of 3 stacked rifles. Again plenty of rust about and the front and rear sights are both missing but it cocks and fires a pellet.The person I bought them from said his Father bought them before the 2nd World War.

If anyone can help I would be very grateful as I would really like to get them up and running and shoot a few targets at some time.

Thank you,

Ken.



















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Re: Well I have finally gone and done it.

Postby johnbaz » Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:20 am

Hi Ken

It sounds like you dropped on two nice old guns ;)

Your Improved model D was produced between 1905 and 1914 according to Dennis Hiller in his book, collectors Guide to Air Rifles and so was bought before even the First world war!!!..
The one he shows in the book is serial number 29706 and he reckons it was made in 1909/10 so yours should be earlier..

The Break barrel he goes on to say that if it doesn't have a letter 'B' before the number then your rifle was made in 1935..
If it does have the 'B' prefix then it was made in 1936..

You can make the rifle finish 100% better by getting some fine wire wool, soak it in light oil (3 in 1) then go to work rubbing it!!

Here's a before and after on a mk2 BSA Airsporter that I acquired and was quite rusty..

Image

Image


And after the treatment..

Image

Image

I have a 1906 BSA Air Rifle in need of some tlc and a 1936 BSA Standard that's exceptional condition, the etching can just be made out in good light but all of the blueing is still there!, it's quite powerful too ;)

This is the BSA Standard..
Image

This is the 'BSA Air Rifle' of 1906..
Image


Good luck with your restoration ;)



Cheers, John :)
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Re: Well I have finally gone and done it.

Postby Certus » Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:41 pm

Hello Ken,

I started in the reverse way to yourself first collecting BSA Air Rifles followed shortly afterwards by Webley Air Pistols.

You may already be aware that there is an excellent site dedicated specifically to older BSA Air Rifles which provides an invaluable resource.

http://www.network54.com/Index/105071

Also, most spares are still reproduced and sold by John Knibbs International who can also provide the standard publications relating to the history of BSA Air Rifles being "Lincoln Jeffries & BSA Air Rifles a history of innovation" and "The Golden Century". Both books are quite expensive but contain just about everything you might want to know about BSA products.

http://www.airgunspares.com/store/depar ... UN-SPARES/

Gun 1

Curiously,the Ser No Index at the back of the first book states that Ser No 15346 is part of a batch made May/July 1907 consisting of Standard & Light Pattern Mod Bs and not Mod Ds. So you might want to confirm the Ser No or check the rifle is not marked Mod B.

Gun 2

The unfortunately named "Breakdown Model" was produced between 1933 and 1939 and could be bought for about 45/- at a time when the weekly wage for labourer was just around the same amount. The first examples had no pre-fix letter so Ser No 6631 would be quite an early example dating from around 1933-1934 and prior to the introduction of the more common 'B' pre-fix. This rifle was originally introduced to compete with the cheaper foreign break barrel rifles sold as an alternative to the more expensive underlever models.

Good luck with your restorations which will I'm sure prove to be well worth while.

Regards

Brian
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Re: Well I have finally gone and done it.

Postby webley ken » Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:37 am

Thank you both very much for the information you have given me, I have given the barrel of the first gun a light going over with fine wire wool and 3in1 oil and it looks ten times better already.

As far as the model number is concerned after careful examination with a strong magnifying glass it is B not D so would like to think this is a 1907 model B and is a lot earlier than I thought it was.

The stock on this one is loose, is there a long bolt behind the butt plate? and if so is it a screw slot or a bolt and do you need a special tool to tighten it.

Sorry about the questions but I know nothing about BSA,s.

I will definately log on to network54.

Again thank you for the trouble you have both gone to in answering the post.

Regards,

Ken
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Re: Well I have finally gone and done it.

Postby johnbaz » Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:03 am

Hi Ken

I would think it's the same as mine, a large slotted screw but I think you may find it difficult to move with over a hundred years worth of rust on the threads!!

As you said, the screwhead is behind the steel butt plate and is a good half inch or more across the head and well down the hole in the stock, A large flat headed screwdriver should fit..


Cheers, John :P
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Re: Well I have finally gone and done it.

Postby pmh » Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:12 am

Looks like you've got yourself two nice early rifles.

It's probably best to try and keep these as original as possible, as much value can be lost if they are cleaned up too much; though I am sure you know what you are doing.

I seem to recall that a handful of scrunched up tinfoil is also good for cleaning surface rust.

Kind regards,



Phil
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Re: Well I have finally gone and done it.

Postby bellringer » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:19 pm

1002.jpg
1000.jpg
Ken I have had a look at my BSA history info and came up with some info that may be of help to you. Regards bellringer
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Re: Well I have finally gone and done it.

Postby webley ken » Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:36 am

Hi Bellringer,

Thanks for the info, I guess that mine is one of the last ones to be made before the B proceeding the number was brought out.
Also nice to see the illustration.

Can anyone tell me how to post pictures please? I am not very computer literate but would like to post pictures of these 2 guns.

Regards,

Ken
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Re: Well I have finally gone and done it.

Postby Certus » Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:36 pm

webley ken wrote:Hi Bellringer,

Thanks for the info, I guess that mine is one of the last ones to be made before the B proceeding the number was brought out.
Also nice to see the illustration.

Can anyone tell me how to post pictures please? I am not very computer literate but would like to post pictures of these 2 guns.

Regards,

Ken



Hi Ken,

To post photos you must first register with one of the internet picture hosting sites such as Photobucket linked below. Registering is free and you just need to follow the instructions under the 'Sign Up Now' Tab.

http://photobucket.com/browse

Once registered, you you simply select the 'Upload' tab and follow the instructions to browse and select the pictures you wish to upload which are automatically placed in Library. To the right of the pictures you will see four 'Links to share this photo' options. If you click on the 'IMG' option the picture will be automatically copied and all you will then need to do is go to the post you have started on the CAPA site, right click and select paste to place the picture directly into the post. Before submitting the post select the 'Preview' option which will confirm if the picture has been correctly pasted. You may find it's a bit large, in which case return to Photobucket and select 'Edit' then 'Resize.' I have found selecting a 'Width' of 600 usually results in the best size for posting. You will then need to select 'Save' which will place the edited picture back into the Library. You can then copy and paste the edited picture into the CAPA post as before.

It may sound a bit complicated when written down, but is really very easy in practice. If you have any problems you can E mail the pictures to me and I will post them on your behalf. I will provide my E-Mail address via a PM should this be the case.

Regards

Brian
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Re: Well I have finally gone and done it.

Postby webley ken » Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:48 am

Thanks a lot Brian,

At the weekend I have one of my grandchildren coming to stay so I will get them to read your post and enlist their help and hopefully will be able to post pictures after that. I am one of these people that once I have been physically shown what to do I then have no problems.

Once again thank you to everyone who has replied to my original post.

Regards,

Ken
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