Barrel Cleaning by Graham Freeman

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Re: Barrel Cleaning by Graham Freeman

Postby I.J. » Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:25 am

Thank you for the above Robin.

Totally agree with you on the solvent and firearms being a different kettle of fish :clap: but I wonder what the results would have been like using a Steyr rifle or pistol which has the chrome bore? :think: As I think we all know - a part of your shooting 'equipment' is having confidence in your gear. After Ive (lightly) cleaned my Steyr pistols I feel I shoot better and any bad shots (and theres plenty of those :doh: ) are down to my inability and NOT the guns.

:D
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Re: Barrel Cleaning by Graham Freeman

Postby RobinC » Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:27 pm

Hi Ian
I think you'll find that the Steyr barrels are stainless not chrome, and this is fairly standard practice across modern manufacturers. But I do agree that its what makes you feel confident in your equipment.
Good shooting
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Re: Barrel Cleaning by Graham Freeman

Postby Adam77K » Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:30 pm

To my knowledge Steyr barrels are internally nickel plated not chromed.

I'm sure what Robin posted is totally right... for 10M match guns at 5.5ft.lbs. However up the velocity to 800 fps and shoot at 50m and it is a different story. Barrels and pellets vary but most top FT shooters agree that most FT rigs do need a clean from time to time. The most recent Steyr barrels are incredibly accurate but seem to fall off a cliff within a few hundred shots. Early Steyr hammer-forged "barley twist" barrels on the other hand don't seem to need much at all. The HW100 I used to use for FT before I got my LG100 used to need a pull through roughly every 2 tins of pellets, and the groups would tighten up again.

I don't think anybody knows really why this happens and why it manifests itself more at 55 yards than 10, or 30, or 40. Is it that 500 fpsIt is fairly well accepted that the minor imperfections in every barrel gradually "lead up" as pellets are shot, but why should this not show up at 10M even to 0.01mm (which is a phenomenal level of accuracy and I'd love to see what that barrel would do on an FT rig. :) ) ?

I don't know but my suspicion (vague fancy, I wouldn't dignify it by the word theory) is that it is to do with pellet spin. I speculate that the twist rate of most airgun barrels is enough to spin-stabilise the pellets out to 40 yards or so, but then the drag-stabilisation starts to take over. At one point when I was having occasional flyer issues with my EV2 (roughly one pellet in 10-20) going 1/2" to 1" high at 55 yards. I did some testing indoors. At 45 yards it was almost one-holing. At 55 yards most pellets were going into a hole you could hide with a penny but the flyers were clearly keyholing the paper; entering sideways or at an angle. In this case cleaning wasn't the issue, I suspected the barrel "not liking" the batch of pellets as with a different batch the problem went away. The point of this example though is the way rifles can group beautifully at one range and suddenly give it another five yards and it all goes to pot. So, my tenuous line of thinking continues, if the barrel imperfections "upset" the pellet somehow (yes I know very scientific), the spin might compensate for this initially. But further downrange when the drag stabilisation starts to gain the upper hand, the pellet can start to wobble or in extreme cases, tumble.

I'm not convinced by the no solvents for airguns argument. I have fired felts through a barrel which have come out clean. Dry pull throughs come out clean. But soak a bit of solvent into the next pull through and the amount of black crud that suddenly comes out is unbelievable. Sometimes it will take another dozen dry pull throughs before there's no black on them. I doubt a fired felt will shift much in the rifling grooves.
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Re: Barrel Cleaning by Graham Freeman

Postby zooma » Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:37 pm

What solvent do you use Adam?
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Re: Barrel Cleaning by Graham Freeman

Postby I.J. » Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:22 pm

Adam77K wrote: I doubt a fired felt will shift much in the rifling grooves.


I to doubt that fired felts have the same effect as careful cleaning with a rod.
I stand corrected about the material in a Styer barrel :doh: but still maintain careful cleaning is a benefit to accuracy.

ATB
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Re: Barrel Cleaning by Graham Freeman

Postby zooma » Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:18 pm

zooma wrote:What solvent do you use Adam?



White Spirit any good?
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Re: Barrel Cleaning by Graham Freeman

Postby I.J. » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:58 pm

In the case of Webley pistols - I find coffee with two sugars does the job and cant ruin accuracy even if it rots the rifling. :dance:

Image
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Re: Barrel Cleaning by Graham Freeman

Postby Adam77K » Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:09 pm

zooma wrote:What solvent do you use Adam?


Hi Bob.

In terms of jollop to soak a pullthrough with I've tried the following over the years: normal mineral gun oil, WD40 :o , pellet lube (basically thin mineral oil), white spirit and Ballistol. I was very careful with the white spirit because I can see how it could seep into the gun's workings especially a SSP or PCP, but I would probably avoid it from now for this reason. In terms of effectiveness there wasn't much in it. My choice these days is Ballistol as it seems to shift muck, is thick enough not to seep into places it shouldn't as long as you are sparing, and smells nice.

Rarely but where I think it is warranted, (e.g. brand new guns to shift the factory grease or guns that have never been cleaned) I use the VFG kit with the bore paste and intensive felts. I then use the standard felts until they come out clean and finish with a couple greased with the teflon "Lupus grease". This is what the late Paul James used* and he was twice World FT Champion in the springer class.

The rest of the time it is just pull throughs with a few felt pellets to finish. I add that any cleaning is a fairly rare occurrence for me these days. It's just if I suspect groups are opening up slightly and I think the gun needs it.

*See this thread http://weihrauchowners.freeforums.org/t ... t6358.html
The photo of first felt with the blue paste on, AFTER pulling through til apparently clean is quite an eye opener.
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Re: Barrel Cleaning by Graham Freeman

Postby zooma » Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:03 pm

I.J. wrote:In the case of Webley pistols - I find coffee with two sugars does the job and cant ruin accuracy even if it rots the rifling. :dance:

Image


I am pleased to see the affection that you have for Webley spring powered air pistols - enough to share your coffee with - you are just a big wobbly softee really :lol:
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Re: Barrel Cleaning by Graham Freeman

Postby zooma » Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:38 pm

Adam77K wrote:
zooma wrote:What solvent do you use Adam?


Hi Bob.

In terms of jollop to soak a pullthrough with I've tried the following over the years: normal mineral gun oil, WD40 :o , pellet lube (basically thin mineral oil), white spirit and Ballistol. I was very careful with the white spirit because I can see how it could seep into the gun's workings especially a SSP or PCP, but I would probably avoid it from now for this reason. In terms of effectiveness there wasn't much in it. My choice these days is Ballistol as it seems to shift muck, is thick enough not to seep into places it shouldn't as long as you are sparing, and smells nice.

Rarely but where I think it is warranted, (e.g. brand new guns to shift the factory grease or guns that have never been cleaned) I use the VFG kit with the bore paste and intensive felts. I then use the standard felts until they come out clean and finish with a couple greased with the teflon "Lupus grease". This is what the late Paul James used* and he was twice World FT Champion in the springer class.

The rest of the time it is just pull throughs with a few felt pellets to finish. I add that any cleaning is a fairly rare occurrence for me these days. It's just if I suspect groups are opening up slightly and I think the gun needs it.

*See this thread http://weihrauchowners.freeforums.org/t ... t6358.html
The photo of first felt with the blue paste on, AFTER pulling through til apparently clean is quite an eye opener.


Thanks Paul,

I have heard good things about Ballistoil so I will try some myself.

Maybe I should order a supply of it and stock it in our shop alongside all the other target shooting accessories?

ATB - Bob.
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