MK2 Target Grip Sizing

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MK2 Target Grip Sizing

Postby Fishguy » Tue Aug 09, 2016 4:00 am

I have the opportunity to purchase a MK2 Target in .177.

The pistol is in good condition, except for the vulcanite grips which have chips typical on the bottom unfortunately. It seems MK2 parts are uncommon. I'm hoping someone can confirm for me whether or not straight grip Senior grips are in fact the same as the MK2 grips? They appear to be very close if not the same in photo comparisons. I do not have anyone nearby me with either pistol in their possession who can assist me.

Any info is appreciated. Thank you.
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Re: MK2 Target Grip Sizing

Postby Certus » Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:22 am

Hi,

Although I didn't actually swap the grips themselves, Iv'e just done a side by side comparison of the two models and taken a few measurements. It seems to me that the grips from the Straight Grip Senior and the Mk2 Target are identical and should be interchangeable.

Obviously, original undamaged Senior grips are also very hard to find, but replica grips can be obtained from John Knibbs International here in the UK.

http://www.airgunspares.com/store/

I must warn you though that I did buy a pair some time ago and wasn't particularly impressed with the quality of these copies. It is possible to make repairs to damaged original grips with a little care and they would then of course remain original.

Regards

Brian
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Re: MK2 Target Grip Sizing

Postby Fishguy » Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:54 am

Thank you very much Brian for taking the time to do the comparison. I'm glad they appear to be interchangeable. I've ordered the MK2 and located an original single right grip panel to replace the chipped one on the gun. I'll be cautious when doing the swap.
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Re: MK2 Target Grip Sizing

Postby Certus » Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:41 pm

Hi,

Glad you were able to source an original Senior grip plate which should be directly interchangeable with the Mk2 Target.

I would be interested in the Ser No of your Mk2 when you receive it. Mine is a second series Ser No 24588 with the small screw retaining the barrel latch rather than a pin. The Mk2 Ser Nos were included with those of the Mk1, so the pistol is a lot earlier than the Ser No might suggest.

Some pictures of my Mk2 Target and Senior below.

Image

Mk2 Target Ser No 24588.

Image

Mk2 Target Grip.


Image

Straight Grip Senior

Image

Senior Grip

Regards

Brian
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Re: MK2 Target Grip Sizing

Postby Fishguy » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:48 pm

Very nice pistol!
I should be receiving the pistol today or tomorrow. I'm looking forward to finding out the details as you noted, there seems to be some interesting variations in details depending on the gun's time of manufacture.
Once I receive it I'll let you know the serial number and hopefully I can post some photos. I'm very much hoping that the pistol's parts arrival original and there hasn't been someone along the way using a mishmash of replacement parts if something needed replacing!
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Re: MK2 Target Grip Sizing

Postby Fishguy » Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:31 am

Received the pistol today.
Overall looks pretty good. It's got some wear and is not in pristine condition to be sure. However, I figured these models are fairly scarce so it was worth the purchase. It shoots strong and everything functions well.

Serial number is 29111. The rear sight is secured with the washer which looks original, and a nut. I thought they were all screws? Perhaps someone replaced a lost screw with the nut? I have an original screw and washer on hand if need be.

Unfortunately both grips are chipped. I will replace the right panel with the original I obtained. Looks like I'll have to go searching for an original left panel now. It will almost certainly come from the UK as parts for Webleys and in particular this model are virtually non existent over here in Canada/US.

Brian, are you able to confirm which breech seal I should be looking for? The current one if fairly deteriorated, I'm surprised it's shooting as well as it is. I believe it's the full leather seal, and not the one with the inner metal ring?
Attachments
image.jpeg
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Re: MK2 Target Grip Sizing

Postby Fishguy » Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:33 am

More photos...
Attachments
image.jpeg
image.jpeg
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Re: MK2 Target Grip Sizing

Postby Fishguy » Sat Aug 13, 2016 1:37 am

So the Senior grip replacement panel does not in fact fit. It appears to be maybe 3-4mm narrower overall. As well, the screw hole does match up however the "notch" hole at the bottom does not. It is about 4-5mm out so I cannot align them both at the same time. I'm not sure if the grip panel I received is out of spec and should fit? I can't imagine they would have decided to manufacture new panels for the mk2 when they are so close to the Senior ones?
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Re: MK2 Target Grip Sizing

Postby Certus » Sat Aug 13, 2016 1:05 pm

Hi,

So you have what is termed a standard Mk2 Target with a slightly different head to the trigger adjuster and a pin rather than a small screw to hold the barrel latch in place.

The rear sight is as you suspected a replacement and should look like the one in the picture below. Hopefully the one you have as a spare will fit OK.

{URL=http://s1362.photobucket.com/user/Abasmajor/media/c4a95944-1d6c-4c0a-832b-c11df8dfc588_zpsbdtmfcsr.jpg.html]Image[/URL]

Mk2 Target Rear Sight

The original breech washer would have been leather with a brass insert as used on the Mk1 and pictured below. Replacements are available from the UK at the link below, but do require some minor work to make them fit correctly. Alternatively, you could have a go at making something up yourself from a hard rubber 'O' ring.

Image

Mk2 Target Breech Washer.

http://www.airgunspares.com/store/produ ... t-No.-S12/

Link to UK Breech Washer Supplier.

A real shame about the Senior grips not fitting as the chances of finding original Mk2 grips even here in the UK are remote.

As I said earlier, sympathetic repairs can be made to damaged grips using an epoxy resin filler such as Araldite followed by careful rubbing down and an application of gloss paint. This is obviously not ideal, but at least looks a bit better and the the grips wil remain original.

Hope this helps.

Regards

Brian
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Re: MK2 Target Grip Sizing

Postby Fishguy » Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:23 pm

Brian, can't thank you enough for your assistance.

I was able to swap out the rear nut and bolt and replace with original retaining washer and screw successfully. I've got another rear sight blade on order to replace this one.

Yes I'm very disappointed in the grip situation, thought I had a winner. I think what I'll end up doing instead of repairing is wait for the reproduction ones to become available again, order them, and drill out a small hole for the pin that's just a few mm from the manufactured one. It would certainly fit then, and look proper. I'd then retain the original ones to have.

Lots to learn!
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