Webley Senior .177 - "A Little Bit Tatty".

A place to discuss all things Webley. As this is probably the most collected airgun maker we felt it deserved a section of its own.
zooma
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Posts:646
Joined:Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:12 pm
Re: Webley Senior .177.

Post by zooma » Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:34 am

wmp50075 wrote:my eyes may be playing tricks on me but one of your your pics shows the right hand side of your senior which seems to show the birmingham '4' post code which would make it a weaman street made earlier example!

Your eyes do not deceive you - my "new to me" Senior does indeed have the Birmingham 4 post code on the stamp ! :o

I will change the comments on bobsairguns to read accordingly - thanks for spotting it - I was writing up the text in a hurry to get the job done before rushing home (late again) so I could get down to the club.
Last edited by zooma on Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
Feinwerkbau P40 Tricolour wanted.........still !
http://www.bobsairguns .com - proud to host the RMTC site since April 2011.

zooma
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Posts:646
Joined:Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:12 pm

Re: Webley Senior .177 - A Little Bit Tatty.

Post by zooma » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:19 am

We finally gave up on trying to "restore" the piston on my first Senior "A Little Bit Tatty" as the machined ring that retains the sear had been worn away in one area and although the pistol shot very nicely for a while the piston does rotate in use and it seemed to be finding the lowest area of this retaining ring increasingly more often - and when this happened it refused to cock.

A better condition Senior piston was bought and I fitted it when I was in the RMTC range last night and then it was used in our "traditional" end of Thursday evening Webley "beat-up" where it performed without failure.

However, "A Bit Tatty" does have some pride and when I got home last night she decided to develop another small fault that needs further attention. As I pull the trigger with the pistol uncocked a "clicking" can be heard and felt as the trigger passes the release point and the sear drops.

I believe this is yet another successful attempt by "A Little Bit Tatty" to gain yet more attention and she is indeed now becoming a very "needy" Webley Senior that really enjoys the attention she continues to demand.

No doubt this story will continue...................
Last edited by zooma on Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Feinwerkbau P40 Tricolour wanted.........still !
http://www.bobsairguns .com - proud to host the RMTC site since April 2011.

zooma
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Posts:646
Joined:Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:12 pm

Re: Webley Senior .177 - "A Little Bit Tatty".

Post by zooma » Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:26 am

I should have mentioned that I think "A Little Bit Tatty" is also very disappointed that I have failed to mention that she too carries the proud "Birmingham 4" post code stamp - just like the new arrival to the family "Not So Tatty".

Having cleared this up I hope "A Little Bit Tatty" will now start to behave a little better as "it is not big and it is not funny" to keep showing off in public with all these continuing problems.

I will get her "well oiled" tonight when I take a look at this new trigger problem and see if that improves her temperament a little :think:
Feinwerkbau P40 Tricolour wanted.........still !
http://www.bobsairguns .com - proud to host the RMTC site since April 2011.

Certus
Sharpshooter
Sharpshooter
Posts:430
Joined:Sun May 12, 2013 9:34 am

Re: Webley Senior .177 - "A Little Bit Tatty".

Post by Certus » Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:48 pm

zooma wrote:I should have mentioned that I think "A Little Bit Tatty" is also very disappointed that I have failed to mention that she too carries the proud "Birmingham 4" post code stamp - just like the new arrival to the family "Not So Tatty".

Having cleared this up I hope "A Little Bit Tatty" will now start to behave a little better as "it is not big and it is not funny" to keep showing off in public with all these continuing problems
I will get her "well oiled" tonight when I take a look at this new trigger problem and see if that improves her temperament a little :think:
I now understand why this particular Webley model was aptly named the 'Senior' as it seems to demand the same TLC us 'Senior Citizens' demand and continually develops those niggley little ailments than often accompany getting older.

Regards

Brian

zooma
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Posts:646
Joined:Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:12 pm

Re: Webley Senior .177 - "A Little Bit Tatty".

Post by zooma » Sun Oct 13, 2013 6:45 pm

I decided to take the trigger out of "A Little Bit Tatty" this afternoon and found that the funny clicky noise and feel was being caused by the new coil spring that we had fitted into the trigger where a matching hole had been provided to accomodate it - or so we thought!

The spring had bent over where it exited from the trigger and was making that scratchy scraping noise that I could hear and feel

My thoughts went back to the wide flat "hair-grip" shaped spring that I had recently acquired as being the correct type for the Webley Senior. :think:

A quick reference to the excellent book about Webley air pistols by Gordon Bruce :geek: revealed that the flat spring had replaced the coiled spring in 1955 and the photos of the two trigger shapes enabled me to identify that "Tatty" had the later shape of trigger.

I easily installed the flat spring and now the trigger feels superb and silky smooth.
Feinwerkbau P40 Tricolour wanted.........still !
http://www.bobsairguns .com - proud to host the RMTC site since April 2011.

zooma
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Posts:646
Joined:Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:12 pm

Re: Webley Senior .177 - "A Little Bit Tatty".

Post by zooma » Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:30 pm

I need to find a replacement brown grip for "Tatty" for the left hand side as it had a part of it missing when I bought it but I would be happy to buy a pair if anybody has some they would be willing to part with.

Also - does anybody know what oil should be used in a Senior as it has the bronze piston ring ( same as Mk 1 ) ?

I was told 30 weight engine oil is the best - I tried some Abbey Gun and Rifle Oil but that just makes it squeak so I am not too happy with this choice and I understand this would be better in those that have a leather washer.
Feinwerkbau P40 Tricolour wanted.........still !
http://www.bobsairguns .com - proud to host the RMTC site since April 2011.

Certus
Sharpshooter
Sharpshooter
Posts:430
Joined:Sun May 12, 2013 9:34 am

Re: Webley Senior .177 - "A Little Bit Tatty".

Post by Certus » Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:41 pm

I believe that Webley No2 oil recommended for pistols with phosphor bronze piston seals was basically ordinary SAE 30 motor oil. This is what I have been using to lubricate my Seniors for some time without any problems.

Regards

Brian

zooma
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Posts:646
Joined:Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:12 pm

Re: Webley Senior .177 - "A Little Bit Tatty".

Post by zooma » Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:09 am

I bought a can of SAE30 engine oil for use in the Norton gearbox on my Myford Super 7B :geek: so I have a good supply of that and I will use it from now onwards.
Feinwerkbau P40 Tricolour wanted.........still !
http://www.bobsairguns .com - proud to host the RMTC site since April 2011.

zooma
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Posts:646
Joined:Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:12 pm

Re: Webley Senior .177 - "A Little Bit Tatty".

Post by zooma » Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:19 am

I stripped "Tatty" and found small metal chippings inside the pistol - very worrying!

I cleaned out everything and put it back together and took a few more shots with it before stripping it again and found more small metal chips ( like filings) inside.

No mechanical damage could be seen but the used piston that I had installed to replace the worn-out original did have some detents in the head before I fitted it so I took some wet and dry paper and put it on a flat surface as I rubbed it in a circular movement to take any edges off of the dents.

The hard edges of the piston were also given a "rub" before another good clean. All of the grease was wiped off of the spring and everything was re-assembled on SAE 30 oil only. The pistol felt very smooth and was shot at RMTC last night by myself and Phil just to get a few rounds through it so I could strip it again when I got home last night.

I still found a couple of small fragments but compared to previously when everything was speckled with them this was a vast improvement so I reassembled it again on nothing but SAE 30 oil and I will keep checking it until is stops producing the swarf completely or I can find out where it is coming from and fix it.

The trigger is still good - so the new type flat spring works well.
Feinwerkbau P40 Tricolour wanted.........still !
http://www.bobsairguns .com - proud to host the RMTC site since April 2011.

User avatar
pmh
Site Admin
Posts:1826
Joined:Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:07 pm

Re: Webley Senior .177 - "A Little Bit Tatty".

Post by pmh » Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:26 pm

I think a little bit more running in and this pistol should be up to scratch.

The trigger is a bit more stiff than experienced in other models, but the let off was predictable and I did manage to hit the 10 at 10m with the rest of the pellets at least hitting the target.

To be honest, the pistols were never designed for such a distance, so the performance is more than acceptable.

They are, of course, an important part of our airgunning history and we should do all we can to preserve as many examples as possible.

Kind regards,



Phil
M0KPH
I now have so many airguns I've had to make a list, which is >>HERE<<
>>North Manchester Target Club<<

zooma
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Posts:646
Joined:Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:12 pm

Re: Webley Senior .177 - "A Little Bit Tatty".

Post by zooma » Sat Oct 19, 2013 9:28 pm

I recently picked up a nice (but not mint) .22 "new model" Webley Mark 1 at a very good price and I am more than pleased with it - but it does mean that I am now "on the hunt' for a genuine .177 barrel to fit it so I can use this model to shoot at our regular Thursday vintage Webley shoot-out that takes place towards "close of play" most Thursday nights at RMTC.

The only reason I mention it here is that it ( like Tatty) also has the left hand grip broken :doh:

Why is it always the left hand grip that breaks - or am I just a bit unlucky?

So now I need a two left hand grips - one brown for Tatty and one black for the Mark1 - does anybody have any grips to sell or swap that will help me return these two Webley's to their original complete specification?
Feinwerkbau P40 Tricolour wanted.........still !
http://www.bobsairguns .com - proud to host the RMTC site since April 2011.

zooma
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Posts:646
Joined:Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:12 pm

Re: Webley Senior .177 - "A Little Bit Tatty".

Post by zooma » Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:06 am

"Tatty" was exercised at RMTC last night following her latest strip and rebuild and she shot well and with good power and seemed happy about running on a single lubricant of SAE30 engine oil as all of the grease and dri-slide had been lost during last weeks re-build.

As soon as I got home I took Tatty apart again to see if she was still producing swarf as this has been an on-going worry.

Unfortunately I did find some more fresh swarf on the piston - but this time only in the recess between the head and the ridge that the sear is held back against and none anywhere else.

I cleaned away all of these small steel particles and took out the trigger and sear so I could have a good look around inside and gave everything a good wipe and clean. I polished-up the sear and the sear retaining ring edge with fine wet and dry paper in the hope that this may help prevent any small shards of steel chipping away as I now think this is probably where it is coming from.

I also polished the sides of the trigger and sear so they can slide freely in the frame and checked that there were no new indents in the piston head before putting everything back together again on some fresh SAE30.

As soon as Tatty stops making debris I will grease the spring in the more conventional way but for now I will keep checking after each shooting session until this annoying problem is arrested and continue to use SAE30 oil only as it is much easier to see and clean away any foreign bodies.
Feinwerkbau P40 Tricolour wanted.........still !
http://www.bobsairguns .com - proud to host the RMTC site since April 2011.

zooma
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Posts:646
Joined:Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:12 pm

Re: Webley Senior .177 - "A Little Bit Tatty".

Post by zooma » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:11 am

Tatty had a little bit too much to drink and made a bit of a scene at the club last night and was asked to leave due to some lurid (explosive) behaviour so maybe only using SAE30 oil as the sole lubricant is OK but its use needs to be a little more restrained.

.........looks like Tatty will come apart again tonight as the weekly swarf count needs checking again and her liquid intake needs reducing - good job she comes apart so easily ( lots of practice) !
Feinwerkbau P40 Tricolour wanted.........still !
http://www.bobsairguns .com - proud to host the RMTC site since April 2011.

User avatar
pmh
Site Admin
Posts:1826
Joined:Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:07 pm

Re: Webley Senior .177 - "A Little Bit Tatty".

Post by pmh » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:36 pm

We did so using tatty as it was quite clearly detonating after the first few shots.

A such, it was decided to retire for the evening.

A suggestion was put forward to coast suspected areas with engineers blue, or equivalent, to try and identify which surfaces are causing the swarf.

We are nearly there with this pistol, and it will soon be up to scratch.

Kind regards,



Phil
M0KPH
I now have so many airguns I've had to make a list, which is >>HERE<<
>>North Manchester Target Club<<

Post Reply