Webley Senior .177 - "A Little Bit Tatty".

A place to discuss all things Webley. As this is probably the most collected airgun maker we felt it deserved a section of its own.
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Webley Senior .177 - "A Little Bit Tatty".

Post by zooma » Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:35 pm

I have been looking for a nice .177 Webley Senior or Premier for some time.............and I still am looking for a nice example of either !

However, I did manage to pick up a nice cheap .177 Senior this week, it is a bit tatty, has the odd screw missing, and needs a new seal but once this is done and it has has a good coat of looking at it will most certainly make a nice "everyday shooter".

I always find it a bit disappointing when nicely made pistols like this are abused, and the end cap that is stamped "DO NOT REMOVE" has clearly been butchered by somebody attempting to remove it with a narrow bladed screwdriver :naughty: and I am guessing there is no chance of ever finding an undamaged replacement end cap so the damage is permanent.

Even though this will never be a pristine example of a Webley Senior this burred over and chewed end cap does irritate me, so I will attempt to gently tap the raised burrs back down to hopefully stretch the steel enough for me to then restore the slot shape with a suitable file and then polish the end cap back to a nice smooth surface. Maybe then a quick coat of bluing gel will at least give an acceptable and burr free finish.

..........meanwhile - although the hunt for a really nice example will continue - I have a feeling that once this tatty example is made good it is very likely to become one of those pistols that earns some real affection - a bit like a rescue dog - and will become a firm friend for life :)
Last edited by zooma on Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:17 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Webley Senior .177

Post by bellringer » Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:35 pm

zooma hi; message from bellringer; I have a brand new in the white Webley pistol end cap, stamped 'do not remove'; it is slightly aged from storing [as expected] but has no pitting that would be a problem to polish out; also I have neoprene and leather breech seals available [no brass insert in the leather ones]; if you are interested in buying, I would sell the end cap and 5 breech seals [any mix of type] for £20 including postage. Let me know via e mail to me at [email protected] if you are interested and we can proceed from there. I assume the end caps for the Senior and Premier are the same, I put my end cap against both types and can't see a difference. To remove an end cap marked do not remove, you have to drill out the small securing pin holding it in place and there is a small possibility the cap may be loctited as well, but you will soon find out if there is adhesive if the cap unscrews easily, if not low heat will soften the loctite. Not all caps were 'glued' so you may be lucky if you decide to try. Also I have most screws and pins for Seniors, if you let me know what you need. Have a think and let me know what you decide. Regards bellringer [Ray]

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Re: Webley Senior .177. A Little Bit Tatty.

Post by zooma » Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:11 pm

Thanks Ray,

The end cap is just what I need :clap:

I have sent you an email to accept your offer together with details of some screws that I need as well - just in case you have some of these for sale too.

Do you also have a .177 barrel for a Premier by any chance?
Last edited by zooma on Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:17 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Webley Senior .177. A Little Bit Tatty.

Post by zooma » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:12 pm

Hi Ray,

The parts have arrived safely - thanks for sending them.

ATB - Bob.
Last edited by zooma on Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Webley Senior .177. A Little Bit Tatty.

Post by zooma » Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:57 am

My rather tired .177 Senior continues to "amuse" us with its temperamental attitude towards being shot - but it is showing some signs of relenting and making a compromise by working for us now and again. :dance:

Following Grahams ongoing attention my tatty old forty pounds worth of British engineering does work well when it feels like it and with a good lube job it is also super-smooth and the trigger is now the best on any Webley that has been shot at RMTC to date - so it does have its good points and is slowly gaining even more good points to the extent that it will become a really nice working pistol...........soon............maybe :doh:

Having said that, that pistol still continues to disgrace itself by finding new things to fail every time we use it.

Last night at the RMTC we did have a few really nice shots with it - but then it failed to cock ( unless it felt like it). This time we noticed that it would cock if the trigger was held in the forward position so the trigger return spring is suspected as being at fault.

Our "head of unusual size small springs" thought he may have something suitable stashed away in his supply cave and so he took the Senior away to find one that would fit - and hopefully cure the problem.

We all wait with anticipation to see what our pet Senior can throw at us next, but we are getting to like this temperamental member of our community but have to remind it now and again just how fortunate it is to have found a nice comfortable home with us as we fear most owners would have turned it back out on the street by now :naughty:
Last edited by zooma on Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Webley Senior .177. A Little Bit Tatty.

Post by zooma » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:41 am

A fellow Wobbly enthusiast from our neighbouring Rivvington Club needed a new trigger spring for his Tempest - but bought the flat type spring as used in the Senior instead of the normal coil type he needed by mistake.

As we had made the opposite mistaken presumption ( that the Senior trigger spring was a coil type) and we did not have a flat type spring to hand, contact was made and our own express delivery courier (IJ) brought it across to us at RMTC this Tuesday and I passed it on the Graham yesterday.

Once this spring is fitted we will see what this temperamental (but lovely shooting) Senior can come up with next to tax us..........or maybe it will be satisfied with the attention it has already received and behave itself by working nicely for us.............that would be nice! :pray:
Last edited by zooma on Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:18 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Webley Senior .177

Post by RobinC » Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:21 am

You ar'nt drifting towards vintage guns now are you Bob?

I have my Premier bought new, with the box, un butchered other than the rear sight filed open so it is possible to actually see the forsight! Serial number 888 and it shoots a dream, trigger ok (for a wobbly), smooth but heavy, and when pointed at the middle shoots accurately at 10 mts. As you know our club is a bit serious, but we did have a "wobbly comp" a few years ago one evening for fun and an ex commonwealth games medalist shot some serious scores with my Premier (and I mean SERIOUS!). So they may be difficult, but the do shoot.

SSP's, Co2's, PCP's, they don't know the're born now!
Good Shooting
Robin

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Re: Webley Senior .177. A Little Bit Tatty.

Post by zooma » Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:25 am

RobinC wrote:You ar'nt drifting towards vintage guns now are you Bob?

I have my Premier bought new, with the box, un butchered other than the rear sight filed open so it is possible to actually see the forsight! Serial number 888 and it shoots a dream, trigger ok (for a wobbly), smooth but heavy, and when pointed at the middle shoots accurately at 10 mts. As you know our club is a bit serious, but we did have a "wobbly comp" a few years ago one evening for fun and an ex commonwealth games medalist shot some serious scores with my Premier (and I mean SERIOUS!). So they may be difficult, but the do shoot.

SSP's, Co2's, PCP's, they don't know the're born now!
Good Shooting
Robin

Hi Robin,

I think that is a fair observation !

As my own personal ability to shoot a good target diminishes (for all kinds of boring reasons) I keep my interest alive by playing more and more with some older types of pistols, and that includes the Wobleys in particular!

I am not any better at shooting them - but nobody expects too much from them in their old and and often unfettled condition with heavy triggers etc - but they do make me smile and enjoy going to the club with them.

It is also interesting to see how they compare with each other and to see how much better they are with a little TLC and some decent lubrication!

Now I am actually looking at making the trigger smoother on at least one of them to see if I can make it a little better to shoot since I have heard such good story's about Hipo's excellent Premier and reports about just how good his trigger feels.

None of this will help turn the years back for me or give me a sudden increase in my target shooting abilities - but it does keep me interested and involved enough to have a go with the serious target stuff now and again - just in case things start to improve!
Last edited by zooma on Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:18 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Webley Senior .177 - Not So Tatty.

Post by zooma » Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:08 pm

Here is my new toy!

http://bobsairguns.com/index.php?option ... Itemid=168" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is a very nice Senior, but I think "A Little Bit Tatty" is already getting very jealous as she has started playing up again! :doh:
.
...............I just think it a typical cry for attention so I will try ignoring her for a little while and see what happens.
Last edited by zooma on Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:28 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Webley Senior .177

Post by wmp50075 » Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:02 pm

my eyes may be playing tricks on me but one of your your pics shows the right hand side of your senior which seems to show the birmingham '4' post code which would make it a weaman street made earlier example!

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Re: Webley Senior .177.

Post by zooma » Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:34 am

wmp50075 wrote:my eyes may be playing tricks on me but one of your your pics shows the right hand side of your senior which seems to show the birmingham '4' post code which would make it a weaman street made earlier example!

Your eyes do not deceive you - my "new to me" Senior does indeed have the Birmingham 4 post code on the stamp ! :o

I will change the comments on bobsairguns to read accordingly - thanks for spotting it - I was writing up the text in a hurry to get the job done before rushing home (late again) so I could get down to the club.
Last edited by zooma on Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Webley Senior .177 - A Little Bit Tatty.

Post by zooma » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:19 am

We finally gave up on trying to "restore" the piston on my first Senior "A Little Bit Tatty" as the machined ring that retains the sear had been worn away in one area and although the pistol shot very nicely for a while the piston does rotate in use and it seemed to be finding the lowest area of this retaining ring increasingly more often - and when this happened it refused to cock.

A better condition Senior piston was bought and I fitted it when I was in the RMTC range last night and then it was used in our "traditional" end of Thursday evening Webley "beat-up" where it performed without failure.

However, "A Bit Tatty" does have some pride and when I got home last night she decided to develop another small fault that needs further attention. As I pull the trigger with the pistol uncocked a "clicking" can be heard and felt as the trigger passes the release point and the sear drops.

I believe this is yet another successful attempt by "A Little Bit Tatty" to gain yet more attention and she is indeed now becoming a very "needy" Webley Senior that really enjoys the attention she continues to demand.

No doubt this story will continue...................
Last edited by zooma on Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Webley Senior .177 - "A Little Bit Tatty".

Post by zooma » Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:26 am

I should have mentioned that I think "A Little Bit Tatty" is also very disappointed that I have failed to mention that she too carries the proud "Birmingham 4" post code stamp - just like the new arrival to the family "Not So Tatty".

Having cleared this up I hope "A Little Bit Tatty" will now start to behave a little better as "it is not big and it is not funny" to keep showing off in public with all these continuing problems.

I will get her "well oiled" tonight when I take a look at this new trigger problem and see if that improves her temperament a little :think:
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Re: Webley Senior .177 - "A Little Bit Tatty".

Post by Certus » Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:48 pm

zooma wrote:I should have mentioned that I think "A Little Bit Tatty" is also very disappointed that I have failed to mention that she too carries the proud "Birmingham 4" post code stamp - just like the new arrival to the family "Not So Tatty".

Having cleared this up I hope "A Little Bit Tatty" will now start to behave a little better as "it is not big and it is not funny" to keep showing off in public with all these continuing problems
I will get her "well oiled" tonight when I take a look at this new trigger problem and see if that improves her temperament a little :think:
I now understand why this particular Webley model was aptly named the 'Senior' as it seems to demand the same TLC us 'Senior Citizens' demand and continually develops those niggley little ailments than often accompany getting older.

Regards

Brian

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Re: Webley Senior .177 - "A Little Bit Tatty".

Post by zooma » Sun Oct 13, 2013 6:45 pm

I decided to take the trigger out of "A Little Bit Tatty" this afternoon and found that the funny clicky noise and feel was being caused by the new coil spring that we had fitted into the trigger where a matching hole had been provided to accomodate it - or so we thought!

The spring had bent over where it exited from the trigger and was making that scratchy scraping noise that I could hear and feel

My thoughts went back to the wide flat "hair-grip" shaped spring that I had recently acquired as being the correct type for the Webley Senior. :think:

A quick reference to the excellent book about Webley air pistols by Gordon Bruce :geek: revealed that the flat spring had replaced the coiled spring in 1955 and the photos of the two trigger shapes enabled me to identify that "Tatty" had the later shape of trigger.

I easily installed the flat spring and now the trigger feels superb and silky smooth.
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