New Webley Pistols and Old Webley pistols

A place to discuss all things Webley. As this is probably the most collected airgun maker we felt it deserved a section of its own.
Post Reply
zooma
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Posts:646
Joined:Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:12 pm
New Webley Pistols and Old Webley pistols

Post by zooma » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:16 am

Ever since Webley announced the departure from the traditional methods of manufacturing their air pistols with the announcement of the Junior Mk 2 and the Premier Mk2 many of the Webley enthusiasts saw this as the "start of the end" for the traditional British made air pistol range, and many even to this day will not accept the "new image" models as "proper" members of the Webley air pistol family.

When the Hurricane and the Typhoon came along soon afterwards that was the final straw for many traditionalists as not only had they seen the all steel construction and hand finishing methods removed - but now Webley were also seen to be tampering with the accepted shape of this all time classic series of air pistols as well.

The last spring powered air pistol design from Webley was the Tempest, and this was intended to appease those that hated the new Hurricane and Typhoon profile and was easily achieved by simply chopping the back off of the existing Hurricane/Typhoon casting and banging a simple sight on the back so it looked a lot more like the traditional size and shape that was expected by the Webely customers.

Further dismay was to be endured as the new Tempest pistols were no longer made on Britain - but in Turkey :o

The various "head to head" tests that I have been arranging recently is partly to satisfy my own curiosity and to see if any of these new fangled upstarts deserved to wear the treasured Webley badge.

The most obvious head to head ( in my opinion) was to put the Turkish made Tempest to the test against the British made original, and that test is ongoing - and seem's to have attracted a lot of interest.

Putting the best of the traditionally made Webley air pistols - the Premier - against the first pistol produced using the new production methods - the Premier Mk 2 seemed like an obvious next move, so I will enjoy doing this next series of tests - and like the Tempest tests I am sure there will be some overlap as other Webley pistols get dragged into it if they happen to be on the range at the same time :doh:

Other planned future tests include the Junior v the Junior Mk 2 ( if I can find one of the last of the "proper" Junior pistols with a rifled barrel)...............and eventually the Hurricane and Typhoon need to be put to the sword as well.

Where do I stand in all this?............I love the traditional steel Webley air pistols - but I keep an open mind and appreciate that things sometimes need to change - even if it not always for the better - but I do recognise the new production models as important members of the Webley spring powered air pistol family.
Feinwerkbau P40 Tricolour wanted.........still !
http://www.bobsairguns .com - proud to host the RMTC site since April 2011.

Certus
Sharpshooter
Sharpshooter
Posts:430
Joined:Sun May 12, 2013 9:34 am

Re: New Webley Pistols and Old Webley pistols

Post by Certus » Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:01 pm

Hello,

Looking forward to the results of your continuing Webley comparisons.

Iv'e got quite a collection of Webley air pistols including Mk1 & Mk2 Juniors all of which have undergone informal comparison at one time or another.

My overall favourite would be the pre-war Slant Grip Senior for the more comfortable hold it provided over the Straight Grip model and the more elegant trigger shape and lack of barrel serrations present on the post-war Senior which have never really appealed to me. I can't say I have found much difference in handling or accuracy between the pre and post-war Seniors or the Premier.

Both Junior models also seem to handle and perform in a similar manner despite the Mk2s rifled barrel, but I much prefer the feel and appearance of the Mk1. Haven't had too much success with either Junior beyond 6yds though, but I guess that was the originally intended optimum distance for these small frame pistols.

Regards

Brian
Last edited by Certus on Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Leonardj
Marksman
Marksman
Posts:128
Joined:Sun Dec 23, 2012 4:58 am

Re: New Webley Pistols and Old Webley pistols

Post by Leonardj » Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:46 pm

I read your write-up on the test you did comparing the UK Tempest to the new Turk Tempest, and have to admit that I was extremely surprised by your results.

Sadly, every single Turk Tempest that I have examined in hand, or shot has proven to be severly lacking in so many ways compared to my own trusty, and very well used UK Tempests.

The very first Turk Tempest that I checked out was at my favourite local gun shop. They know me quite well there, and as I walked into the shop, the one fellow behind the counter immediately motioned me over to the section of the showcase where the airpistols are displayed. He handed me this Turk Tempest and told me to "go ahead and cock it". I couldn't believe how stiff and difficult to cock that thing was - it was almost like trying to cock my UK made Webley Patriot - but with a Tempest barrel !!! I honestly believed that I was going to break the cocking links before I would get it cocked. Once cocked, I was handed a pellet, and then directed to a pellet trap sitting on the floor behind the counter, and told "go ahead, shoot it". Not being one to refuse a chance to shoot something new, I proceeded to shoot the gun at the pellet trap. The trap was only about four or five feet away, and I swear that it was a miracle that the pellet managed to reach the trap - it shot that weakly. The sales person told me that it chronied at around 190 FPS, and asked if that was "normal". For the Turk guns perhaps, but not for the UK built guns......LOL. The shop sent the gun back to their supplier as defective, and recieved another new Turk gun in exchange. The replacement was likewise difficult to cock, and shot weakly, and was also returned, but this time, the shop took a credit - they wanted nothing more to do with these new Turk Webleys. A shame really, because that shop was where I bought some of my first Webley airguns back in the early 1970s.

Not long afterward, I got the chance to examine another Turk Tempest. An acquantance had purchased it for plinking, and after perhaps a couple hundred shots, it would no longer cock. He brought it to me to check out, and it appeared that the ridge that the cocking foot acts against was beginning to peel away from the piston !! This is something that I have never before seen on any Tempest, or for that matter any UK Webley air pistol. I suspect that either the piston had missed being heat treated, or was incorrectly heat treated. That gun was returned as defective as well, and on my advice, the fellow replaced the gun with a second hand UK built Tempest.

Then, just recently, I had the chance to examine a "Centennial Edition" Turk Tempest, in the presentation case, with all the paraphenalia included. I expected that being a special edition, that this would be the one gun that should have been a top shelf specimen. Sadly, once again, it was very disappointing. Dificult to cock, and again, under-powered for the effort put forth to cock it.

So, with three for three bad Turk Tempests, I just came to the conclusion that their quality is no better than any other Turk airgun I have had the displeasure to have worked on. I don't know if our Canadian importer got stuck with a shipment of sub-par guns, or what, but I know that I will never be buying a Turk Webley, or any other brand of Turk airgun.

I have posted to other forums about the dismal quality of workmanship that I have found when working on Turk made airguns, such as Hatsan, and Retay.
As a result of what I have seen, I will no longer accept any Turk made airgun for any sort of work.

http://ftcentral.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=485" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://ftcentral.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=503" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://ftcentral.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=499" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://ftcentral.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=576" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Certus
Sharpshooter
Sharpshooter
Posts:430
Joined:Sun May 12, 2013 9:34 am

Re: New Webley Pistols and Old Webley pistols

Post by Certus » Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:47 pm

Hi Leonard,

Thanks for the very interesting and informative post relating to the poor quality you have encountered with 'Turkish' Tempests.

I have always been a devout advocate of the 'all steel' Webley pistols and had no interest in the alloy framed models that appeared in the mid-seventies. I did make an exception with the Mk2 Junior as I came across a particularly nice example to which someone had added a lovely pair of wood grips.

Anyway, about six months ago in a moment of apparent madness, I bought a new Turkish Tempest in .22 calibre just to see how it performed compared with my more traditional 'Brummie' pistols. As in your case the pistol proved extremely under powered producing a a mere 1ft/lb or so of energy. It was also returned to the distributor but unfortunately as in your case exhibited the same poor performance on its return from repair. I was offered a refund or a replacement in .177 calibre instead of my original choice in .22 and opted for the replacement pistol.

I now shoot the .177 pistol on a regular basis and have to admit that it has proved entirely reliable and at least as accurate as my traditional Webley pistols. It is quite hard to cock, but I would not say excessively so once the correct knack is acquired.

Hopefully I now have one of the better examples of the 'Turkish' Tempest which will continue to perform as well as it does now.

I guess only time will tell.

Regards

Brian

User avatar
pmh
Site Admin
Posts:1826
Joined:Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:07 pm

Re: New Webley Pistols and Old Webley pistols

Post by pmh » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:43 pm

From a little experience, and reading some feedback, it would appear that the .177s perform well, and the .22s don't.

The .177 I have been using certain whacks the target, and it would probably be worthwhile putting the pistols we have been using over the chrono.

Kind regards,



Phil
M0KPH
I now have so many airguns I've had to make a list, which is >>HERE<<
>>North Manchester Target Club<<

zooma
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Lifetime Contributor to Shooting
Posts:646
Joined:Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:12 pm

Re: New Webley Pistols and Old Webley pistols

Post by zooma » Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:59 am

Hi Leonard,

I was also very surprised at the results we discovered when shooting the Turkish Tempest.

My boxed example was bought s/h from a seller on the BBS for £80 including postage, and the day it arrived I took it to the club later that night and took my first shot with it - I couldn't resist taking my old British Tempest with me, and that was how this series of comparison tests at the RMTC got started.

It was obvious when I first saw this "used" Turk that it has not really been used at all - it was just about as new as a new air pistol gets and it was very tight and dry and very hard to cock. Without repeating the test report I would just mention that as the night progressed and we added a little spray lube things got a lot better - it is still quite hard to cock, but now a lot smoother.

This TT ( like Brians .177 example) has plenty of power, and has more power than any of the British made Webley air pistols that we jointly own and have shot so far, and so this contrasts sharply with your experience of them. Maybe the report we have heard about the early Turkish production problems were correct, and it may be a good idea (if you get the opportunity) to try another more recent .177 example as I suspect you will find a similar result to ours.

We have not seen a .22 Turkish Tempest so we cannot comment about the performance of those, but if the early production problems have been resolved there is no reason to suspect that the benefits would not be equally shared with the .22 models as well.

As of now the Turkish Tempest just keeps getting better with use, and still has impressive power to display with every shot. It is also the most accurate Webley Tempest we have shot so far - another shock !

The Turkish Tempest was indeed a very big surprise package
Feinwerkbau P40 Tricolour wanted.........still !
http://www.bobsairguns .com - proud to host the RMTC site since April 2011.

Post Reply