Acvoke musings.

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Leonardj
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Acvoke musings.

Post by Leonardj » Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:53 pm

Earlier in the year I managed to add a second Acvoke to my collection, and at the time, just placed it in storage alongside my much earlier acquisition. Just recently, I was trying to decide whether to sell one of the guns off, keeping the better of the two, but soon realized that the two had a few subtle dis-similarities that piqued my interest.

Subsequent research of both written reference materials and online sources did not provide the answer to my questions, thus, the purpose of this post. Both of these guns are of the later style, without the teat on the cocking lever.

The first and most obvious difference noted, which I have not seen mentioned anywhere else in my research, is the treatment to the muzzle of the gun. On the earlier of my two guns, SN 14975, the barrel protrudes proud of the forward end cap by a good 0.060", and is rifled right to the end of the barrel. On the other gun, SN 18541, the barrel is flared open at the end cap, and the muzzle is counter-bored for a depth of 0.371", to a diameter of 0.194". Thus, the rifling ends approximately 3/8" short of the end of the barrel. The end cap also has a more distinct step at the point where it meets the main tube.
Since this obvious difference in the muzzle treatment doesn't seem to have been addressed previously, is this particular gun a scarce anomaly, or was the noted difference a common feature on the later guns, and just deemed not worthy of mention?

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Next up, the grip retaining screw and it's corresponding nut. On the earlier SN gun, the nut is a round, slotted nut, made of steel, and separate from the grip. On the later gun, this nut is a blind, domed, brass nut that is molded into the grip panel. What I found interesting is that the date codes on the inside of the grip panels were both 1947. So, did the transition from one grip style to the other occur in 1947, or were both grips perhaps sourced from differing suppliers, concurrently?
Note also the position of the Acvoke trademark in relation to the shoulder at the top of the ribbed portion of the grip.

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Examining the inside of the grip panels on both guns reveals another subtle difference. The earlier gun has the letters "L" and "R" molded into them, while the later gun has the letters "L2" and "R2" molded into them. Is there any significance to the addition of the "2" to the grip panel markings? Perhaps a change in the mix of the material used in molding the grips, or perhaps a change in the molding process? The date on the "L2" grip is 1947, so is it possible that the number signifies the change to the fixing nut, or is it possible that it identifies a difference in supplier?
As well, note the difference at the mounting screw locations between the two different grip sets.

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Discuss, speculate, participate.

Certus
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Re: Acvoke musings.

Post by Certus » Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:29 pm

Hi Leonard,

Not directly related I know, but out of interest I carried out a bit of multi-forum research some time ago to establish the highest Acvoke Ser No known to forum members. My own example (Ser No 24640) was the highest reported in the UK, but Trevor Adams (New Zealand) had apparently seen Acvokes with Ser Nos nearer 25,000 suggesting the last batches went for export. My own pistol has the same characteristics as your higher Ser No example. I can't say I have ever been aware of the differences you describe, but I haven't really examined all that many Acvokes that closely.

Regards

Brian

Leonardj
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Re: Acvoke musings.

Post by Leonardj » Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:23 am

Hi Brian,
Thank you for your response.

Your thread on the AGBBS was one of the online sources that I read in my quest for more info on the Acvoke. A lot of interesting info there.

I never really looked that closely at the Acvoke that I have had for decades, until I got the second one, which turned out to be just a wee bit different, and that was all it took to arouse my curiosity to seek out more info.

Certus
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Re: Acvoke musings.

Post by Certus » Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:54 pm

Hello Leonard,

I bought a Thunderbolt Junior and a Tell 2 just to have the three different sizes of this particular style of pistol. Given the minor differences (apart from size), it makes you wonder how separate patents could be granted for what is in essence the same basic design.

Pictures below:

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Acvoke

Image

Thunderbolt Junior

Image

Tell 2

Regards

Brian

Leonardj
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Re: Acvoke musings.

Post by Leonardj » Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:21 pm

Interesting indeed with regard to the patents.

Based on dates of manufacture, it would appear that the Tell 2 (1925 - 1940) was the first of the group, followed by the Acvoke (1946 - 1956), and very closely followed by the Thunderbolt Junior (1947 - 1949).
Not sure how the war affected the patent laws, or previously held patents, but perhaps could explain why Accles & Shelvoke may have been able to capitalize on the design, post war, and re-submit a patent invalidated due to the war, or war reparations.

Leonardj
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Acvoke with plastic trigger??

Post by Leonardj » Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:16 am

In an e-mail response, I was told of an Acvoke, bearing serial number 19902 which had a plastic trigger.
Has anyone else ever encountered such an anomaly?

The above gun was described as being in excellent condition, and did not appear to have ever been modified.

Certus
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Re: Acvoke with plastic trigger??

Post by Certus » Mon Oct 13, 2014 11:53 am

Leonardj wrote:In an e-mail response, I was told of an Acvoke, bearing serial number 19902 which had a plastic trigger.
Has anyone else ever encountered such an anomaly?

The above gun was described as being in excellent condition, and did not appear to have ever been modified.

Hi Leonard,

I have never seen or heard of an Acvoke with anything other than the standard metal trigger.

Regards

Brian

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