Walther CP1

[Tank]

Robin, first off, thank you for your kind words.
I will be taking a photograph of the LPM-1 as it is absolutely Mint. I have to thank Garry of GT Pistols for the lovely Duracoat work but the gun shoots a dream and it will be my pistol for next seasons 6yd MPL
"The surprise from the mysterious East" - Robin, Ladies and Gentlemen, I am going to astound you. ASTOUND you I say. Watch this space. You are not quite going to believe this. I am about to change a facet of the airgun world as you all know it!

Outrageous boast?

I don't think so. Pictures to follow soon! )

[zooma]

I will take a look at the serial number of my CP1 to see if it was your old one Robin.

I will be delighted to keep the Derek Gent grip on my CP1 as it makes a very rare pistol even more desirable as it is a beautiful piece of workmanship that is itself very collectable and probably impossible to replace.

As far as I know the CP1 and CP2 grips are the same as each other - do you have any pictures of your CP1 to confirm this by any chance?

Here are some pictures of my Derek gent grip since I adapted it slightly to fit my hand size:-

http://bobsairguns.com/index.php?option ... Itemid=126" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[zooma]

"The surprise from the mysterious East" - Robin, Ladies and Gentlemen, I am going to astound you. ASTOUND you I say. Watch this space. You are not quite going to believe this. I am about to change a facet of the airgun world as you all know it!

Outrageous boast?

I don't think so. Pictures to follow soon! )

Have you bought a new wok ?

[RobinC]

Hi Bob
Sadly I don't have the number of my original CP1 but I'm now going to email Norfolk Police and ask again if they have any records from back then in case some one is more sympathetic and can find the number. When would it have been Bob? The first ones must have been 1980 or 81?
I think the odds of you having my old original pistol must be very slim, but it would be a lovely coincidence if it was! I can think of no better custodian.

The Mysterious East!!! All those reading this who are not in the know (thats Graham and Bob) are really getting curious now!!! And Yes I'm expecting to be astounded, and I know!!!

Graham I'll start a new Thread to build the tension!!!

[zooma]

Whilst trying to establish the likely date that Robin had his CP1 air pistol it was very interesting to read in the latest Blue Book of Airguns that their records START with the CP2 (1985 - 1990) so they obviously don't know anything about the CP1 and maybe that'e because there was so few of them made and none were exported to the USA. This date also seems a bit late for the CP2 as the production of the CP1 was very short lived so it seems more likely that the CP2 was not exported to the USA until 1985 and this does not indicate when the CP2 production was started.

Given this information I decided to dig a little deeper and to expand my research a little further.

Dennis Hilliers book "The Collectors Guide to Airpistols" (third edition1993) does not even mention the Walther CO2 pistols at all but Dr Laslo Antals book "Competetive Pistol Shooting" (1983) does show a picture of the CP2.

John Walters first edition of "The Airgun Book" mentions the Walther-Senfter Target Pistol as being designed by the Austrian Emil Senfter and states than "few details of it's construction have yet to be released"........but it does state that it is to be mass produced in 1981.

By the time the second edition of the same book was published in 1982 it had named this pistol as the Walther CP1 and stated that its production did not start until the autumn of 1981 but that it had already gained an encouraging Bronze medal in the 1981 world championships.

The third edition of "The Airgun Book" provides further information about the CP1 and includes the claim that up to 350 shots can be made from one single filling of the gas cylinder.....however it then goes on to mention that the modified version of the CP1 appeared in 1983 and was called the CP2. The principle difference being the detachable rigger unit.

Given this information Robin I would say that the earliest you could have had your Walther CP1 match air pistols would have been late 1981.

[RobinC]

Thanks Bob
Its not just shooting the things, the history is fascinating as well! Bobsairguns is building nicely as a reference site and a virtual museum, but have you considered a live museum as well? The Walther museum in Ulm is not open to the public but I'm sure I could arrange a visit if you found yourself in the area.

I have a picture which I'll e mail to you, its too big for this site as is and I'm not clever enough with the confusor to reduce it, perhaps you can and post it on here? Its from the Walther museum and shows the CP1 in the 80's section, the date is obscured but I think its 81. We were in Ulm in 1980 which would match with us being shown the pre production ones and I think we would then have got them in 81. The next time we went to Ulm was in 83 and that would have been too late so I think that matches, I think your 1981 is probably correct.
Norfolk firearms dept are very helpfull but they told me before that my old FAC records were pre computor, but I have sent another pleading request, offering to pay for a search of paper if it it still exists, but as they have moved HQ since that time I doubt that it does.
The fact that yours has DG grips suggests to me its a period one from the UK and not a German import, and they were rare so it could be one of the pair that George and I had, I can't remember any one other than George and I had them.In fact the only Co2's I can remember in use at that time in comps waa Hammerli and the FWB model 1. I can't remember who I sold mine too, it was not Derek Gent as I knew him and would have remembered, but it was some else in the BPC at that time as the BPC was the centre of our shooting then. The more I think about it the more I think that the odds of it being one of that pair is better than even! Sadly we may never know!
I can't even search with the importers as that was Malcolm at AI, now long gone in that form and now a new company, and Bill who worked for AI then is also gone and he may have had old files. My contact at Walther who is responsble for the museum is off sick at the moment so I can't search there but I can't see them having records from that period as they have moved since and the old site was a bit muddled.
Fun this game!
Robin

[zooma]

Hi Robin,

The CP1 that I have is pistol number 1241.

I even have the original Walther case with the same serial numbers on the case end-label and the "Export Certificated" (red printed on white) label again with the same serial number on it.

.............and of course I also have the original handbook as well!

[RobinC]

Norfolk police have confirmed that they don't keep records that far back so its just a dream that yours may have been one of that pair. It would have been a big coincidence any way if it had been!

[zooma]

Maybe not such a coincidence!

There were very few CP1 pistols made and even less imported into the UK due the the requirement to have them registered on a firearms certificate.

Even fewer CP1 pistols would have had a Derek Gent grip custom made to fit it as the owners would have to know about this grip maker and hold a firearm certificate during this same time period so it would have been a fairly exclusive ownership club of very small numbers.

The CP1 design itself was slightly flawed and so it was quickly re-engineered to produce the modified CP1 that became know as the CP2.

Maybe your Walther connections could let you know how many CP1 pistols were actually produced - and their production logs can probably also identify the serial numbers of the pistols they exported to the UK in late 1978 as the numbers could probably be counted on the fingers of one hand !..................or even just those used in the traditional victory salute perhaps?

[RobinC]

I've e mailed my friend but I think he's off sick so I'll see if I get a response.

Production logs! If you had seen the old factory you'd understand, it was chaotic. The new one is like a clinic and the museum was an attempt to recover some of their past lost in the chaotic years.

Robin

[RobinC]

Wow! he's back and replied by return, the records no longer exist, he says about 1000 or less made and they have not an idea how many came to England.
Quite a small production run then, but I still suspect very few were original English imports.
The Gent grips would suggest but not definitively that who ever had them made was a BPC (British Pistol Club) man.
Its infuriatingly frustrating that we have this fabulous research tool the internet but that so much info in the period before that relys on memories and paper long gone.

[zooma]

If you check the pictures on bobsairguns before I refinished the grips it did indeed have two stickers on it - one was the BPC badge ( I think) and the other had two initials on it - maybe the owners or maybe a range control officers "weapons control" pass sticker?

http://bobsairguns.com/index.php?option ... Itemid=124" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[RobinC]

Its an ESSU control sticker, and a BPC one, can't see the date though, though the earliest BPC computor records are in 2000, otherwise I'd have a look and see if a name jumps out. The one with the initials is an EC sticker from one of the meetings that did not print their own stickers.

I had the original grips as did George, so if its one of the pair its was the next owner who had the DG grips made.

Is there a date on the warranty or any of the other original docs? That may show the manufacture or import date. I reckon that's a real early one as the test card is an LP3 one with CP1 hand written on?
Robin

[zooma]

Hi Robin,

The warranty certificate is number 0080 with the pistol serial number being correctly shown as 1241.

The pistol was sold by City Guns, 9 Transom House, Victoria Street, BRISTOL on 31st December 1981.

The Walther Export Certificate names Accuracy International Shooting Sports Ltd as being the sole agents for the United Kingdom.

The original Walther Control "UK Model" sticker is still on its backer sheet and has never been stuck onto the pistol.

I have never had or seen an air pistol with so much paperwork and certification - and all of it preserved so perfectly.

All of this original documentation is kept by myself in a clear plastic zip-seal mini document holder to keep it as pristine as it is now.

I would love to find a worthy home for this very rare and well documented pistol with somebody who has the space to display it properly for others to enjoy.

[RobinC]

Hi Bob
Its definately not one of our pair, ours were both supplied direct from AI to our local gunshop,The Gunroom, which closed a few years back , I think ours would have been a bit earlier in the year as it we had them for the match season.
Nice piece of history well backed with the docs.
Robin